Does style of gun matter?

Prof Young · October 19, 2011, 07:35 PM

Scatter gun shooters:
I own a Remington 11-87 12 ga. When I shoot clays with it I hit 2 or 3 out of five on a good day. My buddy Harold hits five out of five with it so I think it's me not the gun.

Recently I shot a friend's double barreled guns. One was and O/U and one was a side by side. I hit four and five out of five consistently. Did I just have a good day or could the style of gun make that much difference?

Live Well be safe.
Prof Young

Doyle · October 19, 2011, 07:44 PM

It's not the "style" of gun that makes a difference. However, the "fit" makes a HUGE difference. That is the reason that competitive trap and skeet shooters will spend $10,000 or more getting a custom made stock. Length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel, etc. all have an effect on point of impact.

oneounceload · October 19, 2011, 08:16 PM

FIT is absolutely crucial
Style MAY make a difference, depending on what you are doing, but this really shines in the better-made guns where things like balance and excellent quality are taken into consideration
Properly made and adjusted SxS and O/U guns will have superb balance designed specifically for the game/quarry.

English game guns, where a SxS 12 gauge may weigh as little as 6 pounds, are designed for fast flying birds that do anything but fly in a straight line
Italian target guns (among others) are designed to be heavy enough to mitigate recoil, but not so ponderous as to affect their "swingability" on quick crossers

When you use a general-purpose gun like a pump, compromises have to be made. In order to do a little bit of everything (including boat oar), certain handling aspects are given less attention compared to other attributes. This is seen where folks adapt themselves to the gun instead of vice versa - success may be had, but not as well as using a gun fitted to the shooter and designed for the purpose

ripnbst · October 19, 2011, 09:34 PM

One Ounce summed it up nicely.

olddrum1 · October 19, 2011, 11:46 PM

What game are you shooting? Trap?

Prof Young · October 20, 2011, 08:00 PM

Shotgunners:
Hey thanks so much for the advice.
So, next question. I know I can probably read up on shotgun "fit" and that will help but where do I go for an expert opinion? Is this a gunsmith kind of knowledge or should I look for a pro shooter to advise me.
Thanks
Live well, be safe
Prof Young

P.S. And I'm not shooting any kind of particular game in skeet or trap. This is just guys going out, throwing clays and knocking them down.

Dave McC · October 20, 2011, 10:10 PM

Mine the archives here for stuff on fit. A pro can do a decent job of determining what your fit should be, but a few sessions at a patterning board or target can do it also.

First, use one of the on line guides to measure drop at face, Length Of Pull,etc.

You mentioned an 11-87. Set up a patterning target and pace off 16 yards. Screw in your tightest choke tube. Do not aim, but shoot at a point in the middle of the target like at a bird flying straight away.

Note where the very center of the pattern occurs. Measure the distance from there to the aiming point. For every inch, move the stock 1/16" by shimming between the stock and receiver. I like Aluminum foil, but plastic can work also. This will get you in the ballpark, more shooting will dial it in by tweaks.

Shimming will move your master eye to where it needs to be. Set things up so the Point Of Impact is where the bead is or a touch higher.

There you go.It's easier than you think.....

jrothWA · October 21, 2011, 08:48 AM

get to a "patterning board" to see where you are impacting in relation to "point of aim".
Then you can start with minor adjustments, padding on stock for higer cheek weld, etc.

Next time at range as who does the Fit trials and contact him.

If the SxS and O/U were older models, they may have had more drop too stock, causing the barrels to point higher.

October 19, 2011, 07:35 PM	#1
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Does style of gun matter? Scatter gun shooters: I own a Remington 11-87 12 ga. When I shoot clays with it I hit 2 or 3 out of five on a good day. My buddy Harold hits five out of five with it so I think it's me not the gun. Recently I shot a friend's double barreled guns. One was and O/U and one was a side by side. I hit four and five out of five consistently. Did I just have a good day or could the style of gun make that much difference? Live Well be safe. Prof Young

October 20, 2011, 08:00 PM	#6
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Thanks Shotgunners: Hey thanks so much for the advice. So, next question. I know I can probably read up on shotgun "fit" and that will help but where do I go for an expert opinion? Is this a gunsmith kind of knowledge or should I look for a pro shooter to advise me. Thanks Live well, be safe Prof Young P.S. And I'm not shooting any kind of particular game in skeet or trap. This is just guys going out, throwing clays and knocking them down.

October 21, 2011, 08:48 AM	#8
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	You really need to... get to a "patterning board" to see where you are impacting in relation to "point of aim". Then you can start with minor adjustments, padding on stock for higer cheek weld, etc. Next time at range as who does the Fit trials and contact him. If the SxS and O/U were older models, they may have had more drop too stock, causing the barrels to point higher.

October 19, 2011, 07:44 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	It's not the "style" of gun that makes a difference. However, the "fit" makes a HUGE difference. That is the reason that competitive trap and skeet shooters will spend $10,000 or more getting a custom made stock. Length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel, etc. all have an effect on point of impact.

October 19, 2011, 08:16 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	FIT is absolutely crucial Style MAY make a difference, depending on what you are doing, but this really shines in the better-made guns where things like balance and excellent quality are taken into consideration Properly made and adjusted SxS and O/U guns will have superb balance designed specifically for the game/quarry. English game guns, where a SxS 12 gauge may weigh as little as 6 pounds, are designed for fast flying birds that do anything but fly in a straight line Italian target guns (among others) are designed to be heavy enough to mitigate recoil, but not so ponderous as to affect their "swingability" on quick crossers When you use a general-purpose gun like a pump, compromises have to be made. In order to do a little bit of everything (including boat oar), certain handling aspects are given less attention compared to other attributes. This is seen where folks adapt themselves to the gun instead of vice versa - success may be had, but not as well as using a gun fitted to the shooter and designed for the purpose

October 19, 2011, 09:34 PM	#4
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	One Ounce summed it up nicely.

October 19, 2011, 11:46 PM	#5
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	What game are you shooting? Trap?

October 20, 2011, 10:10 PM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Mine the archives here for stuff on fit. A pro can do a decent job of determining what your fit should be, but a few sessions at a patterning board or target can do it also. First, use one of the on line guides to measure drop at face, Length Of Pull,etc. You mentioned an 11-87. Set up a patterning target and pace off 16 yards. Screw in your tightest choke tube. Do not aim, but shoot at a point in the middle of the target like at a bird flying straight away. Note where the very center of the pattern occurs. Measure the distance from there to the aiming point. For every inch, move the stock 1/16" by shimming between the stock and receiver. I like Aluminum foil, but plastic can work also. This will get you in the ballpark, more shooting will dial it in by tweaks. Shimming will move your master eye to where it needs to be. Set things up so the Point Of Impact is where the bead is or a touch higher. There you go.It's easier than you think.....