38 Special Reload Problems - Page 2

donkee · February 1, 2005, 09:53 PM

I've been using CCI large rifle primers with no issues. But then I only shoot rifle calibers through milsurp rifles. I don't think there's a primer out there that won't ignite in those babies unless it's an old or contaminated primer. For pistol or civilian/remchester rifles, I would stay away from CCI primers based on what I have seen on the boards and at the range lately............

Rtlesnake · February 2, 2005, 01:24 AM

Donkee, I also shoot the milsurp rifles. When I heard a small bang, I knew something wasnt right. Opening the bolt and extracting the "spent" round, there was exactly 47.5 grains of unburnt powder but yet the bullet was lodged in the bore. It doesnt make sense that the powder didnt ignite but the bullet was pushed halfway into the barrel. It happened twice in a 6.5X55 Swede. Switching primers cured the problem. I would bet its primer problem.
I still have people telling me I loaded a squib round but when the powder is falling out, I know I didnt. Sometimes a CCI just doesnt ignite.

donkee · February 3, 2005, 09:12 AM

there's alot to be said for the flint lock!

rbwillnj · February 3, 2005, 09:41 AM

Well, there may be issues with CCI primers, I don't know, never used them. But, the problems I have had with Unique in 38 Special loadings were with Winchester primers. I have only had problems with Unique, so I think there is problem with Unique not the primers.

Maybe there is not enough ignition from small pistol primers to properly set off Unique. I have used Unique for 45LC loadings, with WLP primers, and never had a problem. I believe my standard charge is 8.6 grains of Unique, which is still a pretty small charge volume compared to the size of the case.

Master Blaster · February 4, 2005, 09:37 AM

I just shot up about 300 rounds loaded with 5 grains of unique, and winchester small primers with a 158 LSWC and a good roll crimp. All were loaded in a .357 mag case and shot out of a smit&wesson 686 4.5 should be plenty of powder to get the bullet out of the barrel, the max load for a 125 jacketed bullet is 5.3 gr in a .38spl case, velocity 1015 fps 10% below that would be 4.7 so 4.5 should not cause a problem. For a laser cast bullet start is 3.2 with a velocity of 690 and max is 4.7 with a velocity of 980 fps. This jibes with my lyman 48 manual as well.

My guess is that the resizing of the case or crimp is way out of spec.

If you turn a loaded round over and press the bullet against the table with your thumb on the case head will the bullet slip inside the case??

Alliant data:

http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg....er%20Cast%20TC

Handgunr · February 7, 2005, 03:21 PM

Hello all,

The primer alone has the capability to push the bullet into the barrel past the forcing cone all on it's own. The only reason that any bullet would get stuck in the barrel would be one of two reasons;
-The powder in the case was contaminated & wouldn't ignite
(aka a squib load)
...... or
-There was no powder in the cartridge...

If the bullet is pushed from the case at all, it's because the primer did the pushing, but there either wasn't anything ahead of it to build pressure, or it was contaminated and wouldn't burn.
With or without a crimp, the bullet should've travelled on out of the barrel just from the friction fit in the case alone. That's if all else was functioning properly. Crimps hold the loaded bullets in place during recoil, and provides resistance when the cartridge is ignited, making the load more effiicent, but without it, and just a friction fit, the load should still push the bullet out with plenty of authority.

If the powder was contaminated, and failed to ignite, flakes of it would be all over the action when the bullet is driven out anyway. It would've been clearly visible and probably all over your shooting hand.

I had called CCI/Tech's sometime ago in relation to their tolerances/misfire problems I had been encountering during loading in the past several years. They stated that "within the tolerances accepted in the industry, CCI sizes their primer cups up on the higher end of them".
I was having misfires with CCI's in certain makes of brass and come to find out, if the brass pockets were slightly tighter, or smaller, I'd run into problems. With CCI's being on the higher end of those tolerances previously mentioned, seating them would fracture the priming compound in the cup and the mixture would crumble and fall into the powder charge.
At that point the primer would be useless no matter how many hits it had.

After using CCI's for years, and never figuring out the misfire here & there, I finally went to the source for the answer.
Now I use nothing but Winchester's and Federals.

My 2,

Take care all,
Bob

Handgunr · February 7, 2005, 03:42 PM

Hello all,

The primer alone has the capability to push the bullet into the barrel past the forcing cone all on it's own. The only reason that any bullet would get stuck in the barrel would be one of two reasons;
-The powder in the case was contaminated & wouldn't ignite
(aka a squib load)
...... or
-There was no powder in the cartridge...

If the bullet is pushed from the case at all, it's because the primer did the pushing, but there either wasn't anything ahead of it to build pressure, or it was contaminated and wouldn't burn.
With or without a crimp, the bullet should've travelled on out of the barrel just from the friction fit in the case alone. That's if all else was functioning properly. Crimps hold the loaded bullets in place during recoil, and provides resistance when the cartridge is ignited, making the load more effiicent, but without it, and just a friction fit, the load should still push the bullet out with plenty of authority.

If the powder was contaminated, and failed to ignite, flakes of it would be all over the action when the bullet is driven out anyway. It would've been clearly visible and probably all over your shooting hand.

I had called CCI/Tech's sometime ago in relation to their tolerances/misfire problems I had been encountering during loading in the past several years. They stated that "within the tolerances accepted in the industry, CCI sizes their primer cups up on the higher end of them".
I was having misfires with CCI's in certain makes of brass and come to find out, if the brass pockets were slightly tighter, or smaller, I'd run into problems. With CCI's being on the higher end of those tolerances previously mentioned, seating them would fracture the priming compound in the cup and the mixture would crumble and fall into the powder charge.
At that point the primer would be useless no matter how many hits it had.

After using CCI's for years, and never figuring out the misfire here & there, I finally went to the source for the answer.
Now I use nothing but Winchester's and Federals.

My 2,

Take care all,
Bob

February 2, 2005, 01:24 AM	#27
Rtlesnake Member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Posts: 26	I agree, sorta Donkee, I also shoot the milsurp rifles. When I heard a small bang, I knew something wasnt right. Opening the bolt and extracting the "spent" round, there was exactly 47.5 grains of unburnt powder but yet the bullet was lodged in the bore. It doesnt make sense that the powder didnt ignite but the bullet was pushed halfway into the barrel. It happened twice in a 6.5X55 Swede. Switching primers cured the problem. I would bet its primer problem. I still have people telling me I loaded a squib round but when the powder is falling out, I know I didnt. Sometimes a CCI just doesnt ignite.

February 1, 2005, 09:53 PM	#26
donkee Junior member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 449	I've been using CCI large rifle primers with no issues. But then I only shoot rifle calibers through milsurp rifles. I don't think there's a primer out there that won't ignite in those babies unless it's an old or contaminated primer. For pistol or civilian/remchester rifles, I would stay away from CCI primers based on what I have seen on the boards and at the range lately............

February 3, 2005, 09:12 AM	#28
donkee Junior member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 449	there's alot to be said for the flint lock!

February 3, 2005, 09:41 AM	#29
rbwillnj Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northwest NJ Posts: 38	Well, there may be issues with CCI primers, I don't know, never used them. But, the problems I have had with Unique in 38 Special loadings were with Winchester primers. I have only had problems with Unique, so I think there is problem with Unique not the primers. Maybe there is not enough ignition from small pistol primers to properly set off Unique. I have used Unique for 45LC loadings, with WLP primers, and never had a problem. I believe my standard charge is 8.6 grains of Unique, which is still a pretty small charge volume compared to the size of the case.

February 4, 2005, 09:37 AM	#30
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	I just shot up about 300 rounds loaded with 5 grains of unique, and winchester small primers with a 158 LSWC and a good roll crimp. All were loaded in a .357 mag case and shot out of a smit&wesson 686 4.5 should be plenty of powder to get the bullet out of the barrel, the max load for a 125 jacketed bullet is 5.3 gr in a .38spl case, velocity 1015 fps 10% below that would be 4.7 so 4.5 should not cause a problem. For a laser cast bullet start is 3.2 with a velocity of 690 and max is 4.7 with a velocity of 980 fps. This jibes with my lyman 48 manual as well. My guess is that the resizing of the case or crimp is way out of spec. If you turn a loaded round over and press the bullet against the table with your thumb on the case head will the bullet slip inside the case?? Alliant data: http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg....er%20Cast%20TC

February 7, 2005, 03:21 PM	#31
Handgunr Member Join Date: February 7, 2005 Location: WNY Posts: 16	Hello all, The primer alone has the capability to push the bullet into the barrel past the forcing cone all on it's own. The only reason that any bullet would get stuck in the barrel would be one of two reasons; -The powder in the case was contaminated & wouldn't ignite (aka a squib load) ...... or -There was no powder in the cartridge... If the bullet is pushed from the case at all, it's because the primer did the pushing, but there either wasn't anything ahead of it to build pressure, or it was contaminated and wouldn't burn. With or without a crimp, the bullet should've travelled on out of the barrel just from the friction fit in the case alone. That's if all else was functioning properly. Crimps hold the loaded bullets in place during recoil, and provides resistance when the cartridge is ignited, making the load more effiicent, but without it, and just a friction fit, the load should still push the bullet out with plenty of authority. If the powder was contaminated, and failed to ignite, flakes of it would be all over the action when the bullet is driven out anyway. It would've been clearly visible and probably all over your shooting hand. I had called CCI/Tech's sometime ago in relation to their tolerances/misfire problems I had been encountering during loading in the past several years. They stated that "within the tolerances accepted in the industry, CCI sizes their primer cups up on the higher end of them". I was having misfires with CCI's in certain makes of brass and come to find out, if the brass pockets were slightly tighter, or smaller, I'd run into problems. With CCI's being on the higher end of those tolerances previously mentioned, seating them would fracture the priming compound in the cup and the mixture would crumble and fall into the powder charge. At that point the primer would be useless no matter how many hits it had. After using CCI's for years, and never figuring out the misfire here & there, I finally went to the source for the answer. Now I use nothing but Winchester's and Federals. My 2, Take care all, Bob

February 7, 2005, 03:42 PM	#32
Handgunr Member Join Date: February 7, 2005 Location: WNY Posts: 16	Hello all, The primer alone has the capability to push the bullet into the barrel past the forcing cone all on it's own. The only reason that any bullet would get stuck in the barrel would be one of two reasons; -The powder in the case was contaminated & wouldn't ignite (aka a squib load) ...... or -There was no powder in the cartridge... If the bullet is pushed from the case at all, it's because the primer did the pushing, but there either wasn't anything ahead of it to build pressure, or it was contaminated and wouldn't burn. With or without a crimp, the bullet should've travelled on out of the barrel just from the friction fit in the case alone. That's if all else was functioning properly. Crimps hold the loaded bullets in place during recoil, and provides resistance when the cartridge is ignited, making the load more effiicent, but without it, and just a friction fit, the load should still push the bullet out with plenty of authority. If the powder was contaminated, and failed to ignite, flakes of it would be all over the action when the bullet is driven out anyway. It would've been clearly visible and probably all over your shooting hand. I had called CCI/Tech's sometime ago in relation to their tolerances/misfire problems I had been encountering during loading in the past several years. They stated that "within the tolerances accepted in the industry, CCI sizes their primer cups up on the higher end of them". I was having misfires with CCI's in certain makes of brass and come to find out, if the brass pockets were slightly tighter, or smaller, I'd run into problems. With CCI's being on the higher end of those tolerances previously mentioned, seating them would fracture the priming compound in the cup and the mixture would crumble and fall into the powder charge. At that point the primer would be useless no matter how many hits it had. After using CCI's for years, and never figuring out the misfire here & there, I finally went to the source for the answer. Now I use nothing but Winchester's and Federals. My 2, Take care all, Bob