Shotshell Vs Metalic

roy reali · June 8, 2007, 09:15 PM

This question is for any of you that reload both metalic cartridges and shotshells. Which do you think is more difficult or trickier?

Thanks!

amamnn · June 8, 2007, 09:54 PM

IF you are talking about loading for serious competition then, on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays-- metallic rifle-- on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays--- Shot shell--on Sundays ---Metallic handgun.

Jart · June 8, 2007, 10:05 PM

I just started with metallics recently with an SDB. Out of 1K rounds I got exactly 1 with an inverted primer.

I've had the SL900 longer and still get occasional funny crimps, the odd mashed case, the rare "no feed" primer.

Metallics seem more consistent and less likely to pick up a glitch. Don't know why this is, though.

roy reali · June 8, 2007, 10:09 PM

Don't recipies have to be followed more closely with shotshell reloading?

T. O'Heir · June 8, 2007, 11:03 PM

"...recipies have to be followed..." You should follow your manual for any reloading religiously. Disregarding maximums and minimums is equally dangerous.

Jart · June 9, 2007, 12:51 AM

I haven't tried ad libbing with either.

roy reali · June 9, 2007, 01:48 AM

I was under the impression that you can not just change a shotshell's wad in any given load. Or alter the shot amount or even the hull. Now I know you have to follow reloading data. However, if you are looking at data for a rifle cartridge using a 180 grain bullet but substitute a 150 grainer, chances are you'll be fine. Or if the data uses Remington cases and you use Winchester cases and proceed cautiously, you'll be ok.

In other words, shotshell reloading leaves less room for experimentation then does metalic reloading.

auto45 · June 9, 2007, 07:04 AM

I would say shotshell reloading is easier than metallic...overall.

You must follow the recipes, but shotshell loading is "less precise" than metallic. Meaning tenths of a grain differences in powder and shot are less meaningful in 12 gauge than loading 45's...for example...big difference.

Few measure OAL in shotshell or measure once and done, resizing often isn't needed, you don't "clean" the hulls.

You gain nothing by trying to "outsmart" the book. Set up your load, follow the recipe exactly(no reason not to), and your done. Your shotshell performance will not improve by changing wads, primers, hulls, loading "off the book", etc, etc.

IMHO, I've loaded tons of both and I'd say there's less(far less) "trouble" or "bad loads" with shotshell than metallic. Same for "machine troubles" also.

Jart · June 9, 2007, 09:57 AM

I was going with metallics being easier mostly due to a myriad of ways a crimp can go south in shotshells and the fact my shotshell press "no feeds" a primer more often than metallic.

It didn't really occur to me that shotshell receipes were more fiddly but I suppose they might be. AA !== STS, Wad types are specific (although there are "swappable" clones), the brand on the primer box matters, etc. but you don't have more than one OAL, cases never need trimmed, you don't change from H110 to Unique because the projectile weight went down, you don't give a wet slap how long the barrel is, you don't have to swap out seating die parts because of the shape of the projectile - probably six of one, half dozen of the other...

The first 1K .45 Colt just went a lot smoother than the first 1K shotshells. This is on progressives.

My guess is that the situation would rapidly invert with single stages. The MEC600Jr requires little paraphernaila and is anvil-simple. Something like a Rockchucker requires much more support gear. The shotshell "starting set-up" doesn't need load blocks, lube pads, itsy bitsy funnels and all the other runes, sigels, signs and arcana associated with a metallic "starting kit". Some succesful MEC600 operators would even fess up to not owning a scale if you catch them in good mood.

So I'll amend my remarks:
Metallic easier on progressives.
Shotshell easier on single.

crowbeaner · June 10, 2007, 09:33 PM

Hey now I use a 600 Jr. and I own 2 scales, just to be double sure when I change powder bushings, or change powders. I have a Dillon 450 and an RCBS single stage. Depending on the caliber and how many cases I have to load, I use whatever setup is the most appealing at the time. Decisions,decisions.

cloudcroft · June 10, 2007, 11:25 PM

roy reali,

This has been discussed before.

They're both the same level of "difficulty"...no difficulty whatsoever.

-- John D.

BigJimP · June 13, 2007, 06:43 PM

I load shotgun shells in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 using MEC 9000HN presses. I load all of my handgun ammo on a Dillon XL-650.

They are all easy to load - but the adjustments on the handgun loads and on the press are much more precise ( + - 0.1 grain on a .45 ACP load is a very big deal ). Where on a recipe for a 12ga shotgun shell - I may be loading 18.4 grains of Hodgon Clays powder ( with a min of 15.7gr and a max of 19.8gr ). So the powder range for safety is drastically different. The adjustments on the press are precise - but my margin of error is significantly wider.

The mix of components on shotshells is very specific - you have to have the right specific primer and winchester 209 primers are very different from remington 209 primers, wads are very specific WIN 12SL and remington 209P are very different, the hulls are specific so you can't mix Winchester and remington hulls, sometimes different mfg's hulls are even a little different in overall height so the crimp has to be adjusted when you change hulls. But in the shotgun world - we buy new shells - we keep our own fired hulls (they never hit the ground if you're shooting an over-under ) so I stay with one type of hull (like Remintong on 12ga exclusively), and one primer, and one wad on a 1oz load, and one type of powder. I may load an 1150 fps shell for skeet - and a 1350 fps shell for sporting clays - depending on what I'm doing - I may load 1 oz of 8's for trap and 1oz of 9's for skeet - but the powder, wad, primer and hull components don't change, we just adjust the press to drop a little more or a little less powder or change the type of shot in the bottle (and it's easy to do, with bushing changes, and checking with a scale ).

But in terms of safety - if my recipe calls for 18.5 grains of Hodgdon Clays powder and if I tried to double charge a hull with 37 grains I'd have powder 1/2 way up the case wall - and when I dropped a wad in and put shot in the hull there would be pellets running all over the place - and I would instantly know I screwed up. If I did not adjust my metallic loader properly or left a set screw loose or something - and dumped 8 or 9 grains in a .45 ACP shell I would never know it if my press did not have a powder check function untill all hell broke loose ........when I fired the cartridge. So adjustments on the metallics have less range for max and min in them and you have to pay very close attention to detail. Attention to detail is important on shotshells too - but there is a lot more range in the options on most gagues.

Bottom line - they're different to reload. Both are pretty easy if you pay attention to detail and have good, clean and well maintained equipment.

June 8, 2007, 09:15 PM	#1
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Shotshell Vs Metalic This question is for any of you that reload both metalic cartridges and shotshells. Which do you think is more difficult or trickier? Thanks!

June 8, 2007, 09:54 PM	#2
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	IF you are talking about loading for serious competition then, on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays-- metallic rifle-- on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays--- Shot shell--on Sundays ---Metallic handgun. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

June 8, 2007, 10:09 PM	#4
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:jart Don't recipies have to be followed more closely with shotshell reloading?

June 9, 2007, 01:48 AM	#7
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Changes? I was under the impression that you can not just change a shotshell's wad in any given load. Or alter the shot amount or even the hull. Now I know you have to follow reloading data. However, if you are looking at data for a rifle cartridge using a 180 grain bullet but substitute a 150 grainer, chances are you'll be fine. Or if the data uses Remington cases and you use Winchester cases and proceed cautiously, you'll be ok. In other words, shotshell reloading leaves less room for experimentation then does metalic reloading.

June 8, 2007, 10:05 PM	#3
Jart Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 1,647	I just started with metallics recently with an SDB. Out of 1K rounds I got exactly 1 with an inverted primer. I've had the SL900 longer and still get occasional funny crimps, the odd mashed case, the rare "no feed" primer. Metallics seem more consistent and less likely to pick up a glitch. Don't know why this is, though.

June 8, 2007, 11:03 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...recipies have to be followed..." You should follow your manual for any reloading religiously. Disregarding maximums and minimums is equally dangerous.

June 9, 2007, 12:51 AM	#6
Jart Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 1,647	I haven't tried ad libbing with either.

June 9, 2007, 07:04 AM	#8
auto45 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 427	I would say shotshell reloading is easier than metallic...overall. You must follow the recipes, but shotshell loading is "less precise" than metallic. Meaning tenths of a grain differences in powder and shot are less meaningful in 12 gauge than loading 45's...for example...big difference. Few measure OAL in shotshell or measure once and done, resizing often isn't needed, you don't "clean" the hulls. You gain nothing by trying to "outsmart" the book. Set up your load, follow the recipe exactly(no reason not to), and your done. Your shotshell performance will not improve by changing wads, primers, hulls, loading "off the book", etc, etc. IMHO, I've loaded tons of both and I'd say there's less(far less) "trouble" or "bad loads" with shotshell than metallic. Same for "machine troubles" also.

June 9, 2007, 09:57 AM	#9
Jart Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 1,647	I was going with metallics being easier mostly due to a myriad of ways a crimp can go south in shotshells and the fact my shotshell press "no feeds" a primer more often than metallic. It didn't really occur to me that shotshell receipes were more fiddly but I suppose they might be. AA !== STS, Wad types are specific (although there are "swappable" clones), the brand on the primer box matters, etc. but you don't have more than one OAL, cases never need trimmed, you don't change from H110 to Unique because the projectile weight went down, you don't give a wet slap how long the barrel is, you don't have to swap out seating die parts because of the shape of the projectile - probably six of one, half dozen of the other... The first 1K .45 Colt just went a lot smoother than the first 1K shotshells. This is on progressives. My guess is that the situation would rapidly invert with single stages. The MEC600Jr requires little paraphernaila and is anvil-simple. Something like a Rockchucker requires much more support gear. The shotshell "starting set-up" doesn't need load blocks, lube pads, itsy bitsy funnels and all the other runes, sigels, signs and arcana associated with a metallic "starting kit". Some succesful MEC600 operators would even fess up to not owning a scale if you catch them in good mood. So I'll amend my remarks: Metallic easier on progressives. Shotshell easier on single.

June 10, 2007, 09:33 PM	#10
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Hey now I use a 600 Jr. and I own 2 scales, just to be double sure when I change powder bushings, or change powders. I have a Dillon 450 and an RCBS single stage. Depending on the caliber and how many cases I have to load, I use whatever setup is the most appealing at the time. Decisions,decisions.

June 10, 2007, 11:25 PM	#11
cloudcroft Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 565	roy reali, This has been discussed before. They're both the same level of "difficulty"...no difficulty whatsoever. -- John D.

June 13, 2007, 06:43 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I load shotgun shells in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 using MEC 9000HN presses. I load all of my handgun ammo on a Dillon XL-650. They are all easy to load - but the adjustments on the handgun loads and on the press are much more precise ( + - 0.1 grain on a .45 ACP load is a very big deal ). Where on a recipe for a 12ga shotgun shell - I may be loading 18.4 grains of Hodgon Clays powder ( with a min of 15.7gr and a max of 19.8gr ). So the powder range for safety is drastically different. The adjustments on the press are precise - but my margin of error is significantly wider. The mix of components on shotshells is very specific - you have to have the right specific primer and winchester 209 primers are very different from remington 209 primers, wads are very specific WIN 12SL and remington 209P are very different, the hulls are specific so you can't mix Winchester and remington hulls, sometimes different mfg's hulls are even a little different in overall height so the crimp has to be adjusted when you change hulls. But in the shotgun world - we buy new shells - we keep our own fired hulls (they never hit the ground if you're shooting an over-under ) so I stay with one type of hull (like Remintong on 12ga exclusively), and one primer, and one wad on a 1oz load, and one type of powder. I may load an 1150 fps shell for skeet - and a 1350 fps shell for sporting clays - depending on what I'm doing - I may load 1 oz of 8's for trap and 1oz of 9's for skeet - but the powder, wad, primer and hull components don't change, we just adjust the press to drop a little more or a little less powder or change the type of shot in the bottle (and it's easy to do, with bushing changes, and checking with a scale ). But in terms of safety - if my recipe calls for 18.5 grains of Hodgdon Clays powder and if I tried to double charge a hull with 37 grains I'd have powder 1/2 way up the case wall - and when I dropped a wad in and put shot in the hull there would be pellets running all over the place - and I would instantly know I screwed up. If I did not adjust my metallic loader properly or left a set screw loose or something - and dumped 8 or 9 grains in a .45 ACP shell I would never know it if my press did not have a powder check function untill all hell broke loose ........when I fired the cartridge. So adjustments on the metallics have less range for max and min in them and you have to pay very close attention to detail. Attention to detail is important on shotshells too - but there is a lot more range in the options on most gagues. Bottom line - they're different to reload. Both are pretty easy if you pay attention to detail and have good, clean and well maintained equipment.