Black powder 1873

chaz12 · April 4, 2012, 11:47 AM

Saw this on gunbroker today.

Seller describes it as follows

This is a F.Llipietta Colt single action army revolver. 44 caliber black powder. This gun does not take cartriges. It was made to shot percussion. Backstrap and trigger gaurd is brass. The gun appear unfired. No FFL needed. Can be shipped direct to you. Shipping is $20.00 in the US.

Is this possible? Looking at the cylinder it couldn't shoot anything other than cartridges. Assuming that it was made to only shoot black powder cartridges, is it true that it would not need to go thru an FFL? Or does the seller totally not know what he is talking about?

Chaz

wogpotter · April 4, 2012, 12:03 PM

There was a version made which looked exactly like an SAA , but it was internally a cap & ball revolver. It was also proofed at the lower pressures & materials suitable for BP only. IIRC it was a way to have an SAA look alike in countries where cartridge arms were heavily restricted, or not allowed at all.
You'd need a good pic of the rear of the cylinder, or with the hammer cocked to tell for sure.

Maybe this is one of them?

varmiter · April 4, 2012, 12:23 PM

That gun may very well be BP only. However, in the picture, it is designed to shoot cartridges. This is also confirmed by the presence of an ejector.

Whether it is BP or not, the fact that it uses cartridges will require transfer via FFL.

Chris

**Mike Irwin** · April 4, 2012, 12:49 PM

IIRC the Pietta 1873s that were set up as cap and ball revolvers did have ejectors (ball seaters?) on them, but they also had cut outs in the sides of the cylinder that allowed for the nipple to be capped and also as a debris port so cap scraps wouldn't jam the action.

My guess is that the wrong photo was attached.

gyvel · April 4, 2012, 12:55 PM

If you lighten and blow the photo up a little, you can see the access cutouts for the nipples at the rear of the cylinder.

FYI, there is also a Bisley .44 cap and ball for sale, and it is substantially cheaper than the SAA. (GB Auction # 280263549)

**Mike Irwin** · April 4, 2012, 01:04 PM

By jove I think you're right!

varmiter · April 4, 2012, 01:21 PM

I NOW think you are right too.

It's even much clearer on the second photo on GB....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=280755159

Would anyone care to explain how that cylinder is loaded WITHOUT removing the cylinder.

Chris

Andy Griffith · April 4, 2012, 01:32 PM

I've got one of them, and they are still available from several of the importers, including Traditions, and they come in the three common barrel lengths. Don't ask me how I came by it...it was an accident and came in on "one of those deals."

The ejector is there for looks- to make it look like a regular single action army.
There is no way to load it without a loading stand.

I guess they are more targeted toward people in other countries where having cartridge revolvers are more regulated, but percussion revolvers are less regulated or need far less paperwork. Someone must have thought it a good idea to import some into the US. The only drawback to them that I can see is that they are not allowed in sanctioned "SASS" matches (in the US, but are allowed elsewhere in the world), but they're just as fun as any other percussion revolver.

mykeal · April 4, 2012, 02:07 PM

Andy is right on the mark. I also have one. It's an excellent shooter, given the inconvenience of having to use a charging stand (which I often use anyway since I charge spare cylinders off the gun).

Doc Hoy · April 4, 2012, 03:33 PM

The Traditions is 9 1/4 barrel length, the Uberti is 4 1/2. They both have ejectors which are for looks.

They are both very fine pistols. I think there is not a nickle's worth of difference between Uberti and Traditions of those pistols.

Strafer Gott · April 4, 2012, 04:32 PM

I have the same set-up as Mykeal. I use the 30 grain pyrodex pellets, wonderwads and .454 ball. Load stacks perfectly with mild compression(free rotation). The touch of BP they put on the pellets really helps the ignition.
Blam, as opposed to kapow. Powerful handgun, and many smiles to shoot.
Lots of smoke.

mykeal · April 4, 2012, 04:34 PM

Traditions? I assume that's Pietta, yes?

zullo74 · April 4, 2012, 04:36 PM

Traditions=Pietta

**Mike Irwin** · April 5, 2012, 07:29 AM

"There is no way to load it without a loading stand."

I didn't think you'd be able to use the ejector as a ball rammer. Not enough leverage.

Doc Hoy · April 5, 2012, 11:27 AM

Gotta load it with a press.

sandman_nv · April 5, 2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

I have the same set-up as Mykeal. I use the 30 grain pyrodex pellets, wonderwads and .454 ball. Load stacks perfectly with mild compression(free rotation). The touch of BP they put on the pellets really helps the ignition.
Blam, as opposed to kapow. Powerful handgun, and many smiles to shoot.
Lots of smoke.

Do you crush the pellets in the chamber or do you just pack the ball tightly without crushing the pellet?

I have a couple of boxes and trying to decide to use them or not ( and how to correctly use them ).

Strafer Gott · April 5, 2012, 11:18 PM

You need to crunch them back into the radius, or the ball is too high. Not crazy
compressed, but no airspace. I find the pyrodex pellet powerful, and easy to load with the stand.

sandman_nv · April 6, 2012, 11:36 PM

Thank you for that information, Strafer!

April 4, 2012, 12:03 PM	#2
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	There was a version made which looked exactly like an SAA , but it was internally a cap & ball revolver. It was also proofed at the lower pressures & materials suitable for BP only. IIRC it was a way to have an SAA look alike in countries where cartridge arms were heavily restricted, or not allowed at all. You'd need a good pic of the rear of the cylinder, or with the hammer cocked to tell for sure. Maybe this is one of them? __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

April 4, 2012, 12:49 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	IIRC the Pietta 1873s that were set up as cap and ball revolvers did have ejectors (ball seaters?) on them, but they also had cut outs in the sides of the cylinder that allowed for the nipple to be capped and also as a debris port so cap scraps wouldn't jam the action. My guess is that the wrong photo was attached. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 4, 2012, 01:04 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	By jove I think you're right! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 4, 2012, 01:32 PM	#8
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	I've got one of them, and they are still available from several of the importers, including Traditions, and they come in the three common barrel lengths. Don't ask me how I came by it...it was an accident and came in on "one of those deals." The ejector is there for looks- to make it look like a regular single action army. There is no way to load it without a loading stand. I guess they are more targeted toward people in other countries where having cartridge revolvers are more regulated, but percussion revolvers are less regulated or need far less paperwork. Someone must have thought it a good idea to import some into the US. The only drawback to them that I can see is that they are not allowed in sanctioned "SASS" matches (in the US, but are allowed elsewhere in the world), but they're just as fun as any other percussion revolver. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...." Last edited by Andy Griffith; April 4, 2012 at 01:38 PM.

April 4, 2012, 03:33 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I have both a Traditions and an Uberti The Traditions is 9 1/4 barrel length, the Uberti is 4 1/2. They both have ejectors which are for looks. They are both very fine pistols. I think there is not a nickle's worth of difference between Uberti and Traditions of those pistols. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 4, 2012, 12:23 PM	#3
varmiter Member Join Date: December 2, 2011 Posts: 24	That gun may very well be BP only. However, in the picture, it is designed to shoot cartridges. This is also confirmed by the presence of an ejector. Whether it is BP or not, the fact that it uses cartridges will require transfer via FFL. Chris

April 4, 2012, 01:21 PM	#7
varmiter Member Join Date: December 2, 2011 Posts: 24	I NOW think you are right too. It's even much clearer on the second photo on GB.... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=280755159 Would anyone care to explain how that cylinder is loaded WITHOUT removing the cylinder. Chris

April 4, 2012, 02:07 PM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Andy is right on the mark. I also have one. It's an excellent shooter, given the inconvenience of having to use a charging stand (which I often use anyway since I charge spare cylinders off the gun).

April 4, 2012, 04:32 PM	#11
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I have the same set-up as Mykeal. I use the 30 grain pyrodex pellets, wonderwads and .454 ball. Load stacks perfectly with mild compression(free rotation). The touch of BP they put on the pellets really helps the ignition. Blam, as opposed to kapow. Powerful handgun, and many smiles to shoot. Lots of smoke.

April 4, 2012, 04:34 PM	#12
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Traditions? I assume that's Pietta, yes?

April 4, 2012, 04:36 PM	#13
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Traditions=Pietta

April 5, 2012, 07:29 AM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"There is no way to load it without a loading stand." I didn't think you'd be able to use the ejector as a ball rammer. Not enough leverage. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 5, 2012, 11:27 AM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yep.... Gotta load it with a press. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 5, 2012, 11:18 PM	#17
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	You need to crunch them back into the radius, or the ball is too high. Not crazy compressed, but no airspace. I find the pyrodex pellet powerful, and easy to load with the stand.

April 6, 2012, 11:36 PM	#18
sandman_nv Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 108	Thank you for that information, Strafer!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search