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Old July 14, 2009, 11:37 PM   #26
Doodlebugger45
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Sure, the 243 will work fine. Like others say, it wouldn't be my first choice when I walked over to my closet, but if it's the only choice it sure wouldn't keep me from hunting that day! I don't know if it's sound science or not but for some reason, black bears remind me of hogs like I saw on a job in south Texas. Sure, down there I would rather have a 45-70 or a 30-30 but those Texans were routinely shooting 300 lb hogs with 223 rifles or anything they had handy. So yeah, a 243 will do good. Black bear hunting is different than grizzly bears. It's not life threatening so your main concern is a good humane kill.
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Old July 15, 2009, 08:23 AM   #27
T. O'Heir
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"...to 700lbs..." That'd be a World record bear. 135 kilos(297 lbs) is average. A 600 pound bear is unusual.
A 105 grain A-Max is a target bullet. Not made for hunting anything but varmints. Use a 105 grain SP or SST for Yogi.
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Old July 15, 2009, 08:35 AM   #28
skydiver3346
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.243 for Black Bear?

Sure it will take a black bear.

However; I would definitely use a different bullet (like the Nosler Partition) for your .243. I have to confess (if it were me) I would go with a .308 instead, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is: What happens if the bear turns or moves just as you are taking the shot with a 100 grain bullet? Not all hunting situations work out exactly as planned, (no matter how good a shot someone is). With that said, my biggest whitetail deer (225 lbs.) was taken with a .243 many years ago, (perfect broadside/still shot). The .243 will work. For me, I would probably go with a larger caliber to give you better all around performance and odds on making a cleaner kill. Just my opinion.
Good luck.

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Old July 15, 2009, 10:15 AM   #29
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So yeah, a 243 will do good. Black bear hunting is different than grizzly bears. It's not life threatening so your main concern is a good humane kill.
It may become "life-threatening" when a less-than-perfect shot is taken with that pea-shooter .243, resulting in a wounded bear running off into the brush. Good luck!
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Old July 15, 2009, 10:19 AM   #30
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that pea-shooter .243
I'm going to agree that although it can most certainly do the job, the .243 is probably not the ideal choice for taking a black bear.

However, the .243 is hardly a "pea shooter". Anyone who thinks it is hasn't seen what a well handled .243 with appropriate ammo/bullet choice is capable of doing to a meat target. My own experience is that the damage it can do is way out of proportion to anything a ballistics table comparison would lead you to believe.
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Old July 15, 2009, 10:39 AM   #31
Brian Pfleuger
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When was the last time somebody was attacked by a black bear, besides a mother with cubs?
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Old July 15, 2009, 11:21 AM   #32
tighty whitey
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Internet Armory says it is okay with 100 grain

I happened upon the website, www.internetarmory.com and they have a handy chart for just this type of question. The .243 isn't recommended for black bear using less than a 100 grain bullet, but it is recognized as a suitable cartridge with a 100 grain bullet.

Here is the line to the chart:

http://www.internetarmory.com/rifle_hunting.htm
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Old July 15, 2009, 02:37 PM   #33
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Would you even try it?
No, I would not even try it. Personally I would not recommend anything smaller then a 270 or a 280 with 150 grain pointed soft point. And I dont know if the PSP would be good, or if you would want something with better penetration before expansion.

After the 270 and 280, my next choices would be a 308 or 30-06.

But I own a 280 / 7mm express. So I recommended something that I have first hand knowledge of - but not on bear. I have onyl used it on whitetail deer.
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Old July 15, 2009, 02:59 PM   #34
beezaur
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I decided a shotgun would be a better deal.

My area is forested, often brushy. It is unlikely for me to get a shot over 100 yards.

My .243 is set up as a varmint/long range gun. It weighs like 15 lbs. It's great for shooting long distances, works fine for positions (sitting, kneeling, etc.), but is plain lousy for short range.

There are too many mismatches between that rifle and this job. I could use the .243 if I had to. But I don't have to, so I won't. Mostly I don't want to lose an animal.

Last night I picked up a Rem 870 Tactical 12-ga and a bunch of slug shells. With a red dot sight it should be a pretty good brush gun.

Scott
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Old July 15, 2009, 03:05 PM   #35
~kev~
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beezaur - keep in mind that some red dot scopes are only accurate out to about 20 - 30 yards, especially the cheap ones. Be sure to read the reviews before you buy.
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Old July 15, 2009, 03:09 PM   #36
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I already found out that the hard way about cheap red dots. Note to self: never buy anything with a name like "Buckmaster."

I'm looking at the little Aimpoint T-1 Micro. Off season it'll go on my .22 pistol.

Scott
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Old July 15, 2009, 03:28 PM   #37
Brian Pfleuger
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Well, yes, given that option I'd go with a 12ga. At close range it's pretty hard to beat the power of a 12ga deer slug. Plenty enough gun for any animal, probably in the world, certainly in North America.
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Old July 15, 2009, 03:38 PM   #38
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For use in a smoothbore shotgun, I'd recommend the Remington Buckhammer or Brenneke slugs. The Buckhammers do hammer pretty good at both ends tho...lol.
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Old July 15, 2009, 05:12 PM   #39
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Brenneke Black magic magnums would be my 1st choice if I were using a 12 ga. I'd take a ghost ring sight over a red dot any day. I've had both red dot and holographic sights on shotguns, pistols and rifles. I ended up getting rid of them and going back to traditional sighting systems for several reasons.
1-Most of these sights are mounted pretty high so it's impossible to get a good/consistant cheek weld.
2-You have two choices; either leave it on all the time and burn through batteries or turn it on/adjust the brightness before the shot (extra movement and time).
3-A 4+ moa dot means the best accuracy you can ever expect is 4+ moa from any gun regardless of how accurate it is. This, IMO, means that a smoothbore shotgun that only shoots 4 moa with a scope and competent shooter will not be able to print the same groups if 1/2 the target is completely obscured behind a dot.

To me, electronic sights are either for door kicker military/SWAT types who anly shoot things at close range or for mall ninja types.

my .02 anyway.
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Old July 15, 2009, 05:53 PM   #40
beezaur
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electronic sights are either for door kicker military/SWAT types who anly shoot things at close range or for mall ninja types.
That's Mr. Mall Ninja to you.

Just placed an order for the Aimpoint T-1.
http://www.aimpoint.com/products/aim...oint_micro_t-1

It has a 4-MOA dot and 50,000-hr battery life (yes, that's fifty-thousand hours!) from a CR 2032 coin cell. So basically you leave it on all the time and keep a keychian flashlight as a spare carrier.

The first red dot I tried was a Bushnell Buckmaster (?). It has a [edit: 6-MOA] dot, kind of dazzly too. I got it as a temporary sight for my carbine while I am waiting (and waiting and waiting and waiting) for US Optics to churn out my order. If you cover the target with the dot it does OK. Lots of parallax. Being a bow shooter helps -- you get used to minding your sight allignment and making do with just a front sight. And it flickers. Kind of a piece of junk, but hey, you can still see the irons through the thing if it turns turtle.

I like irons too, but I have gotten to like shooting both eyes open with a red dot. Very fast, works a lot better under pressure (for me).

Scott

Last edited by beezaur; July 15, 2009 at 05:59 PM.
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Old July 15, 2009, 06:17 PM   #41
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I think that your choice of a 12 gauge is a good one. Try lots of different slugs and see which one shoots the best in your shotgun and when the magic time comes, get a good rest and squeeze that trigger and make the best shot you are capable of. Be sure to plan ahead on how to get the bear out of the woods. Dragging is difficult without a lot of help and you really don't want to damage the pelt. Don't forget to start saving your nickles for that bear mount or rug like I got. Be sure that you contact your taxidermist before leaving on your hunt and discuss proper skinning technique for the type of trophy mount or rug that you want. Best of luck and enjoy the hunt. Just sitting here typing about bear hunting has my blood pumping!
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Old July 15, 2009, 11:43 PM   #42
RichM
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The red dot scopes work great. You aren't trying to cut holes at 100 yards, you want to shoot a bear. I use a red dot on my muzzleloader and had one on a 30-30 for a long time. The red dot scope will keep the bullets inside the dot if you do your thing.

The Remington all copper slugs are great and work as advertised.

All you have to do with the bear is stay calm and make a good shot. Post up a photo when you get him.
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Old July 16, 2009, 11:13 AM   #43
wyobohunter
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That's Mr. Mall Ninja to you.
now that's funny, I love it when somebody imbraces a name that would normally be considered an insult, kinda turns the whole thing around.

50,000 hour battery life? Is that right? fifty thousand hours? That's over five years! That is awesome, I'd never bother turning it off unless the battery costs big $.

So, to each his own and good hunting to you. Post pics when you get your bear.
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Old July 16, 2009, 05:04 PM   #44
elkman06
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minimun of .230 caliber, and 2" min cartdridge
\
Is there something between .223 and .243 readily available?
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Old July 17, 2009, 10:06 AM   #45
wyobohunter
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Nothing common enough to be in the Hodgdon reloading data I use. Calibers jump from .223 right up to 6mm (.243). So, assuming .230 is legal, you'd have to want to use it really bad, or just be smart and go with a 6mm/.243 When I took my hunter ed class in middle school I distinctly remember the teacher saying ".243 is the minimum caliber for big game in Wyoming". Either: 1-The rules have changed, 2-He was being practical about it, 3-My memory is a bit fuzzy on the details as that was over 20 years ago and I'm being practical about it.

To me the .243 win is a great varmint cartridge, I may consider it for whitetail but we don't have those here and the only deer I killed in Wyoming were Muleys and yes, .243 will do well enough on Muleys but it wouldn't be my first pick. The .243 would be great on Sitka Blacktail, but at times a gunshot is like a dinner bell on Kodiak and I want to have more than a varmint gun handy when Mr. Ursus Arctos shows up for chow. When my girls are big enough to hunt that's what they'll prolly kill deer with, but you can bet I'll be packin' big and there'll be another adult hunter who is also packin' big.

Somebody said earlier that they know a guy who routinely kills brown bear with a .223, I'd have to see a photo of a bruin with the AR posing on the carcass to believe it... Even then I'd still think he was an... Well, I wouldn't try it and I bet there isn't one single Brown Bear guide who would stand for a hunter going that undergunned. When you go for bear severely undergunned you are not only risking your own life but the lives of all who happen to be in that neck of the woods, I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that these buggers are very tough and extremely dangerous when wounded. Go loaded for bear or stay in fantasy land on the video game machine.

Rant over
My apologies to the O.P. for the partial hijack

Last edited by wyobohunter; July 17, 2009 at 10:14 AM.
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