Hypothetical Screw-Up - Any Way to Fix This?

ScottRiqui · July 22, 2010, 06:40 PM

Let's say John received a handgun from his father, but they're residents of two different states, and John unknowingly neglected to involve a local FFL in the transfer.

Problem is, John has since sold the gun to a dealer in his local state, so it's too late to complete the FFL transfer.

Is there any way to make this right? And more importantly, how likely is this to cause a problem for John in the future?

ZeSpectre · July 22, 2010, 06:56 PM

If John was "gifted" the firearm from an immediate relative, and John lives in Virginia, then it doesn't matter. If John lived in another state then I can't answer the question.

(Oh unless John lived in NY or NJ in which case he should just shoot himself and get it over with).

rjrivero · July 22, 2010, 06:57 PM

Let's just say, John Lived with his father when he bequeathed the firearm to John. It was MANY years ago, who remembers how long.

John decided to sell the gun when he moved to another state.

All's good in the hood.

highvel · July 22, 2010, 07:05 PM

I wouldnt sweat it, the way the story goes! If it were acquired from some other source ,or different circumstance, I think it could lead down a dark path though.

Webleymkv · July 22, 2010, 07:18 PM

It depends, if John's dad gave him the pistol while John was still living in the same state or if John's dad gave him the pistol before 1968 then there is no issue. If that is not the case, however, then a federal crime was committed. Even so, it is very unlikely that it would give John or his dad any trouble as it would have to be proved that John's dad gave him the gun after 1968 when John was already a resident of another state. Even then, the gun would probably have to be seized in connection with a crime which is less likely since John sold it to an FFL.

ScottRiqui · July 22, 2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

If John was "gifted" the firearm from an immediate relative, and John lives in Virginia, then it doesn't matter.

Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states? That would go a long way toward easing John's mind.

ZeSpectre · July 22, 2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states?

My point is that there is no firearms registration in VA and no sales record from a family member, so it would be pretty much impossible to prove where a firearm came from or that any crime was committed.....well unless John were to start talking about it on a public forum or something.

**Frank Ettin** · July 22, 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRiqui

Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states? ...

No one does, because there isn't any -- at least if you (the giver) are still alive. If you want to give someone a gun and come within an exception to the transfer going through an FFL, you have to die.

"It shall be unlawful...(3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B)... "(18 USC 922(a)(3), emphasis added)

and

"It shall be unlawful...for any person ..to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B)...."(18 USC 922(a)(5), emphasis added)

As to the OP's question. If he's concerned, he really ought to be talking confidentially to a lawyer, rather than discussing a possible legal problem on a public forum.

NavyLT · July 22, 2010, 10:47 PM

If I were "John" I wouldn't think twice about it. Nobody (FBI, ATF, NCIS, SVU, CSI, SG-1, etc.) cares.

SwampYankee · July 23, 2010, 07:01 AM

Quote:

If I were "John" I wouldn't think twice about it. Nobody (FBI, ATF, NCIS, SVU, CSI, SG-1, etc.) cares.

I agree. Nobody cares nor will they. Even if the gun is used in the commission of a crime, it was sold to an FFL. That is the last person they'll track down if they start looking into sales history. And if it has gone through multiple FFL's after it was sold, they'll never even come back to the one John sold it to. And why should they bother with any FFL? Bad guy uses gun, bad guy gets caught, bad guy goes to jail. Unless they are trying to make a case against the FFL for straw purchases or illegal sales, they don't care how the gun was obtained.

Suppose they do go to the FFL John sold it too? Even if they want to know that it came from you, how do you prove how you got it? I have a dozen handguns. Each came through a different FFL. If I lose the sales receipt, who is to say where I bought it from? Are they going to scour each FFL in Rhode Island to find out if I own the gun legally? No. This is a nonissue.

Edward429451 · July 23, 2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer

At first I thought this was a joke.

Scott, take a deep breath. I know you work for the feds but think back, remember a time when Americans could follow thier conscience without permits and applications. The before time. Scott Come back! Look waaay deep inside and remember family Scott. Family is bigger than gooberment Scott. Remember. John does not need congressional approval before giving his kid a gun, it's none of thier business.

divil · July 25, 2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

If I lose the sales receipt, who is to say where I bought it from?

NICS of course! They have the serial number combined with the FFL license number. The FFL has your signature filed away on a form.

I think they only have access to that stuff if the gun has been used in a crime though.

NavyLT · July 26, 2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

NICS of course! They have the serial number combined with the FFL license number.

NICS never gets the serial number of the gun. They get the type of gun being transferred: handgun, rifle, or other. That's it. I think they have a sale going on tinfoil hats at Wal Mart this week - made in China, of course.

blume357 · July 28, 2010, 07:58 AM

the ffl you sold it to... or even a private person you sold it to... gave them your name just tell them you bought it off a guy and can't remember his name....

then again... if you really want to be paranoid... how did your father get the gun... if he bought it from an FFL that the direction they, the feds, actually start in a trace.. from the manufacturer to the distributor to the deal (ffl) to the first individual that bought the gun and then on....

July 22, 2010, 06:40 PM	#1
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Hypothetical Screw-Up - Any Way to Fix This? Let's say John received a handgun from his father, but they're residents of two different states, and John unknowingly neglected to involve a local FFL in the transfer. Problem is, John has since sold the gun to a dealer in his local state, so it's too late to complete the FFL transfer. Is there any way to make this right? And more importantly, how likely is this to cause a problem for John in the future?

July 22, 2010, 06:56 PM	#2
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	If John was "gifted" the firearm from an immediate relative, and John lives in Virginia, then it doesn't matter. If John lived in another state then I can't answer the question. (Oh unless John lived in NY or NJ in which case he should just shoot himself and get it over with). __________________ "The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"

July 22, 2010, 07:05 PM	#4
highvel Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2010 Location: Powhatan VA Posts: 633	I wouldnt sweat it, the way the story goes! If it were acquired from some other source ,or different circumstance, I think it could lead down a dark path though. __________________ Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain "I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush

July 28, 2010, 07:58 AM	#14
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	when the feds come knocking on your door... because the ffl you sold it to... or even a private person you sold it to... gave them your name just tell them you bought it off a guy and can't remember his name.... then again... if you really want to be paranoid... how did your father get the gun... if he bought it from an FFL that the direction they, the feds, actually start in a trace.. from the manufacturer to the distributor to the deal (ffl) to the first individual that bought the gun and then on....

July 22, 2010, 06:57 PM	#3
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	Let's just say, John Lived with his father when he bequeathed the firearm to John. It was MANY years ago, who remembers how long. John decided to sell the gun when he moved to another state. All's good in the hood.

July 22, 2010, 07:18 PM	#5
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	It depends, if John's dad gave him the pistol while John was still living in the same state or if John's dad gave him the pistol before 1968 then there is no issue. If that is not the case, however, then a federal crime was committed. Even so, it is very unlikely that it would give John or his dad any trouble as it would have to be proved that John's dad gave him the gun after 1968 when John was already a resident of another state. Even then, the gun would probably have to be seized in connection with a crime which is less likely since John sold it to an FFL.

July 22, 2010, 10:47 PM	#9
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	If I were "John" I wouldn't think twice about it. Nobody (FBI, ATF, NCIS, SVU, CSI, SG-1, etc.) cares.