Would you pull your pistol if Jesse James attacked your vehicle?

JohnH1963 · April 3, 2010, 10:35 PM

Here is the scenario. You decide to drive by Jesse Jame's shop in Long Beach California. You park a distance away on the street and bring your zoom camera. All of a sudden Jesse pulls up on a motorcycle and blocks your vehicle's path of escape. He gets up and stands by your drivers door yelling profanity at you. Then a large man wearing gang clothing approaches with a long knife. He grabs you from the open window and then proceeds to slash your tires and dent the car. This man also says some aggressive words and profanity.

I have the video for you in this link. At any time, would it be appropriate to draw your pistol?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-stalking.html

Brian Pfleuger · April 3, 2010, 10:39 PM

Blocks my vehicles path of escape with a motorcycle?

Uh, no, he didn't.... and he'll wish that he hadn't tried. He's going to have to rebuild that one.

You have to remember that normal things, like a motorcycle in your path, are no longer obstacles in a potentially deadly situation. That bike is only "blocking" me until things get ugly. When it's "kill someone, die or run over a motorcycle", well, it's an easy choice.

ActivShootr · April 3, 2010, 10:44 PM

All he had to do was floor it.

nathaniel · April 3, 2010, 10:50 PM

No you wouldnt have been able to stand up in court especially since it was a "celebrity". I could have messed that bike up hard, now with the video he had he could have gotten by with that.

TenRing · April 3, 2010, 10:54 PM

Jesse must think his motorcycle is a force field. I don't know if the papparazzo had a duty to retreat in CA. If no duty to retreat on a public street, then the victim could draw his weapon when the other guy reached into his car and drew a knife to try to break into his vehicle and slash his tires. Slashing tires is a means of confining a person to a place and preventing then from getting away. The victim could have drawn a weapon to keep himself from being confined or kidnapped. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but common sense leads me to think that if you assault someone with a knife, the other person has a right to defend themselves.

I hear that concealed pistol licenses are almost impossible to get in CA unless you're Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein or otherwise well connected so the point is probably moot.

JohnH1963 · April 3, 2010, 11:50 PM

The state government in California leaves it up for each individual police chief to decide who gets a CCW and who does not (within certain guidelines). Generally speaking, they leave it up to the County Sheriff to decide although municipal department Chiefs are allowed to hand out permits. The County Sheriff's are elected individuals.

For example, in Orange County (which lies between San Diego and Los Angeles Counties), the CCW permit process is constantly brought up from election year to election year. There have been Sheriff's in the past who liberally handed out permits while other Sheriff's have tightened the policy.

The bottomline is that there are quite a few counties that will hand out a CCW permit to anyone walking into the police station who is not an ex-con or mentally incapacitated while others will generally deny almost all applications...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/h...s-percent.html

hoytinak · April 4, 2010, 12:26 AM

If I'm in Kali, hell must have frozen over so it's a non-issue for me.

Derekadavis · April 4, 2010, 12:54 AM

I wouldn't have pulled my CCW.

Would have kept the cam on him for a few seconds till the guy showed up with the knife.
Then I would have redesigned his bike for him. And probably the front end of my car also but I wouldn't just sit there and wait to find out what could happen.

Quote:

If I'm in Kali, hell must have frozen over so it's a non-issue for me.

Agreed!

FreakGasolineFight · April 4, 2010, 01:10 AM

I'm with the majority on this one. Ram the bike and get out of Dodge.

BamaBowtie · April 4, 2010, 01:16 AM

Celebrity status does not stop bullets

, with that said I would have trashed that bike as soon as the guy reached into my window. That would probably have prompted them to chase though. It really was a lose/lose situation.

Glenn Dee · April 4, 2010, 01:37 AM

Nope... No reason to threaten use of deadly physical force. This is one situation where a lawyer is the proper self defense tool.

T. O'Heir · April 4, 2010, 01:48 AM

Fantasize a lot do you? Must admit I do fantasize about Sandra. Mind you, I do wake up far too soon.

Wildalaska · April 4, 2010, 01:48 AM

I got all excited on this thread and thought it was some creative time warp gig where the James Gang invades modern urban life.

WildguessiwaswrongAlaska TM

BikerRN · April 4, 2010, 04:00 AM

Block my truck with a motorcycle?

Yeah sure, that'll work. Come at me with a knife in hand and put me in fear of death or grave bodily injury? That says I may be justified in shooting, but each situation is different. If I could avoid shooting by driving over little Jesse's playtoy I'd happily do so.

I can't tell you how I'd react, as it hasn't happened to me. I could predict how I would react, but that's no guarantee that I will react the way I plan. Also, how I respond one day may be totally different from how I respond on another day in the exact same situation.

I'll give you an example. One day I had a guy grab me by the lapel and draw back his fist. I just calmly looked at him and keyed my radio mic. That was not the response he was looking for, and the situation resolved with no force needed. Another time I had a guy run his hand up along my arm. He was placed on the ground. OK, not the same situation, as no two situation are exactly alike, but they both involve an assault.

Why the different responses? Different people and different situations. The guy that got placed on the ground was much bigger, while the first one was about my size. Also, the move with the hand/arm was an attempt to disable my dominant hand, IMO and expirience. The first situation appeared more violent and dangerous, but the second was actually so.

The thing it boils down to is, what do you perceive and what do you know? Also, how well can you articulate that?

Biker

Glenn E. Meyer · April 4, 2010, 08:38 AM

Good morning - not being a mod for this forum but being on line this morning - I will opine:

T and T is supposed to be for a realistic exposition of issues and not 12 year old fantasy threads!

I would caution the OP from continuing in this vein. I would caution the OP to study up, get realistic training or do what it takes to understand the usage of force in the OP's legal environment.

If my colleagues want to disagree, feel free to re-open this.

Closed!

April 3, 2010, 10:35 PM	#1
JohnH1963 Junior member Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 416	Would you pull your pistol if Jesse James attacked your vehicle? Here is the scenario. You decide to drive by Jesse Jame's shop in Long Beach California. You park a distance away on the street and bring your zoom camera. All of a sudden Jesse pulls up on a motorcycle and blocks your vehicle's path of escape. He gets up and stands by your drivers door yelling profanity at you. Then a large man wearing gang clothing approaches with a long knife. He grabs you from the open window and then proceeds to slash your tires and dent the car. This man also says some aggressive words and profanity. I have the video for you in this link. At any time, would it be appropriate to draw your pistol? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-stalking.html

April 3, 2010, 10:39 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Blocks my vehicles path of escape with a motorcycle? Uh, no, he didn't.... and he'll wish that he hadn't tried. He's going to have to rebuild that one. You have to remember that normal things, like a motorcycle in your path, are no longer obstacles in a potentially deadly situation. That bike is only "blocking" me until things get ugly. When it's "kill someone, die or run over a motorcycle", well, it's an easy choice. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

April 4, 2010, 01:10 AM	#9
FreakGasolineFight Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: Ohio. Posts: 634	I'm with the majority on this one. Ram the bike and get out of Dodge. __________________ "The CZ75 is made of win and longcats."--anonymous youtube comment

April 4, 2010, 01:16 AM	#10
BamaBowtie Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2007 Location: Vernon, FL Posts: 209	Celebrity status does not stop bullets , with that said I would have trashed that bike as soon as the guy reached into my window. That would probably have prompted them to chase though. It really was a lose/lose situation. __________________ Sticks and stones may break my bones, but Hollowpoints expand on impact. (Stolen from Coolhand567)

April 4, 2010, 01:48 AM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Fantasize a lot do you? Must admit I do fantasize about Sandra. Mind you, I do wake up far too soon. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

April 3, 2010, 10:44 PM	#3
ActivShootr Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 1,040	All he had to do was floor it.

April 3, 2010, 10:50 PM	#4
nathaniel Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: North Dakota Posts: 600	No you wouldnt have been able to stand up in court especially since it was a "celebrity". I could have messed that bike up hard, now with the video he had he could have gotten by with that.

April 3, 2010, 10:54 PM	#5
TenRing Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Posts: 427	Jesse must think his motorcycle is a force field. I don't know if the papparazzo had a duty to retreat in CA. If no duty to retreat on a public street, then the victim could draw his weapon when the other guy reached into his car and drew a knife to try to break into his vehicle and slash his tires. Slashing tires is a means of confining a person to a place and preventing then from getting away. The victim could have drawn a weapon to keep himself from being confined or kidnapped. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but common sense leads me to think that if you assault someone with a knife, the other person has a right to defend themselves. I hear that concealed pistol licenses are almost impossible to get in CA unless you're Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein or otherwise well connected so the point is probably moot.

April 3, 2010, 11:50 PM	#6
JohnH1963 Junior member Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 416	The state government in California leaves it up for each individual police chief to decide who gets a CCW and who does not (within certain guidelines). Generally speaking, they leave it up to the County Sheriff to decide although municipal department Chiefs are allowed to hand out permits. The County Sheriff's are elected individuals. For example, in Orange County (which lies between San Diego and Los Angeles Counties), the CCW permit process is constantly brought up from election year to election year. There have been Sheriff's in the past who liberally handed out permits while other Sheriff's have tightened the policy. The bottomline is that there are quite a few counties that will hand out a CCW permit to anyone walking into the police station who is not an ex-con or mentally incapacitated while others will generally deny almost all applications... http://www.ocregister.com/articles/h...s-percent.html

April 4, 2010, 12:26 AM	#7
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	If I'm in Kali, hell must have frozen over so it's a non-issue for me.

April 4, 2010, 01:37 AM	#11
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Nope... No reason to threaten use of deadly physical force. This is one situation where a lawyer is the proper self defense tool.

April 4, 2010, 01:48 AM	#13
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I got all excited on this thread and thought it was some creative time warp gig where the James Gang invades modern urban life. WildguessiwaswrongAlaska TM

April 4, 2010, 04:00 AM	#14
BikerRN Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2007 Location: "State of Discombobulation" Posts: 1,333	Block my truck with a motorcycle? Yeah sure, that'll work. Come at me with a knife in hand and put me in fear of death or grave bodily injury? That says I may be justified in shooting, but each situation is different. If I could avoid shooting by driving over little Jesse's playtoy I'd happily do so. I can't tell you how I'd react, as it hasn't happened to me. I could predict how I would react, but that's no guarantee that I will react the way I plan. Also, how I respond one day may be totally different from how I respond on another day in the exact same situation. I'll give you an example. One day I had a guy grab me by the lapel and draw back his fist. I just calmly looked at him and keyed my radio mic. That was not the response he was looking for, and the situation resolved with no force needed. Another time I had a guy run his hand up along my arm. He was placed on the ground. OK, not the same situation, as no two situation are exactly alike, but they both involve an assault. Why the different responses? Different people and different situations. The guy that got placed on the ground was much bigger, while the first one was about my size. Also, the move with the hand/arm was an attempt to disable my dominant hand, IMO and expirience. The first situation appeared more violent and dangerous, but the second was actually so. The thing it boils down to is, what do you perceive and what do you know? Also, how well can you articulate that? Biker

April 4, 2010, 08:38 AM	#15
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Good morning - not being a mod for this forum but being on line this morning - I will opine: T and T is supposed to be for a realistic exposition of issues and not 12 year old fantasy threads! I would caution the OP from continuing in this vein. I would caution the OP to study up, get realistic training or do what it takes to understand the usage of force in the OP's legal environment. If my colleagues want to disagree, feel free to re-open this. Closed! __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens