C&R firearms from Canada

Fargazer · February 2, 2012, 09:23 PM

I have a couple questions concerning the receiving of guns from Canada; a fellow range member is now a resident alien (green card holder) from Canada, and is looking to bring his collection into the United States. I hold a C&R FFL.

The ATF is telling him he needs to go out of the country, ship his guns back in through customs, and to a FFL. My questions are:

Is there any particular extra hoops either of us would need to jump through to ship a C&R firearm to me?
For some reason, the ATF has stated a Browning 1903 pistol he has (blowback .380, unmodified) is not a C&R firearm, and cannot be imported at all (along with his AR-15). Why would they say that?
Can a resident alien (green card holder) get a C&R license?

I may not know all the questions to ask, so if there's something obviously missing from my questions, please let me know.

gyvel · February 3, 2012, 05:12 AM

As an 03 FFL holder, you are not eligible to "receive" firearms for other people. Your license is for the sole purpose of enhancing your own collection.

I believe his items will have to go an 01 FFL who can obtain the necessary forms from BATF to import these weapons, then transfer them to him.

If you were to receive his weapons, you would, in essence, be saying that you were getting the weapons to enhance your own collection. You could, in theory, then transfer them to him at a later date but, if you ever got audited, BATF would more than likely smell a rat.

As far as the 1903 Browning, the only thing I can think of is that they were originally in calibre 9mm Browning Long and they must be taking the stand that, because it was converted to .380, it is no longer "original," even though it is my understanding that the Swedes did these conversions in the 1950s to make them sellable in the U.S.

As far as whether or not he can get an 03 as a resident alien, you would have to ask BATF about it.

Fargazer · February 3, 2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyvel

As an 03 FFL holder, you are not eligible to "receive" firearms for other people. Your license is for the sole purpose of enhancing your own collection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by "from the ATF FAQ

Q: Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?

No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

Have I misread the part above about "receive"? Perhaps my misunderstanding is from the "to any other licensee" part.

Don H · February 3, 2012, 11:02 AM

I suspect ATF would hold that importing C&R firearms for the express purpose of transerring ownership to a friend would be in violation of 27 CFR 478.41, since these would not be activities related to a collector's activity:

Quote:

(d) The collector license provided by this part shall apply only to transactions related to a collector's activity in acquiring, holding or disposing of curios and relics. A collector's license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act or this part. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector bring the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under this part, he shall qualify as such. (See also §478.93 of this part.)

Scimmia · February 3, 2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Have I misread the part above about "receive"? Perhaps my misunderstanding is from the "to any other licensee" part.

By receive, they mean receive for yourself, not for transferring to someone else.

gyvel · February 3, 2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

By receive, they mean receive for yourself, not for transferring to someone else.

Exactly. As stated above, the purpose of a C&R 03 FFL is to allow you to receive firearms for yourself only to "enhance" your personal collection.

James K · February 3, 2012, 02:48 PM

"ATF has stated..." Who in ATF? By letter from ATF HQ or the word of a field agent? Like the agency they were once a part of, IRS, BATFE people can tell you anything but you cannot rely on their words or advice. In any such questions, get it in writing.

I have no idea why a Browning 1903 pistol would not be a C&R and if it is not, it should be importable to an FFL 01 dealer. The AR-15 is probably non-importable under a law dating to before the (now expired) AWB.

Jim

Fargazer · February 3, 2012, 03:02 PM

First off, I appreciate the feedback. I've done nothing yet, and checked here first, so all is copacetic

Thank you all for the clarification; it makes perfect sense (or as much so as government bureaucracy ever does).

As far as the 1903 confusion, the only thing that comes to mind is that someone he contacted at the ATF thought it was a Browning designed M1902, which would imply the machine gun rather than the pistol. Quite a difference, but then I don't underestimate the potential for government regulatory confusion.

stickhauler · February 5, 2012, 03:40 AM

Either way, your friend has to deal with having US Customs accept the guns into the US. I'm betting that's a big old pile of papers that have to be filled out.

gyvel · February 5, 2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Either way, your friend has to deal with having US Customs accept the guns into the US. I'm betting that's a big old pile of papers that have to be filled out.

It's not that bad; Once BATF approves, custioms usually just lets them through after a brief exam to make sure they are what you say they are.

February 2, 2012, 09:23 PM	#1
Fargazer Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 466	C&R firearms from Canada I have a couple questions concerning the receiving of guns from Canada; a fellow range member is now a resident alien (green card holder) from Canada, and is looking to bring his collection into the United States. I hold a C&R FFL. The ATF is telling him he needs to go out of the country, ship his guns back in through customs, and to a FFL. My questions are: Is there any particular extra hoops either of us would need to jump through to ship a C&R firearm to me? For some reason, the ATF has stated a Browning 1903 pistol he has (blowback .380, unmodified) is not a C&R firearm, and cannot be imported at all (along with his AR-15). Why would they say that? Can a resident alien (green card holder) get a C&R license? I may not know all the questions to ask, so if there's something obviously missing from my questions, please let me know. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 3, 2012, 03:02 PM	#8
Fargazer Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 466	First off, I appreciate the feedback. I've done nothing yet, and checked here first, so all is copacetic Thank you all for the clarification; it makes perfect sense (or as much so as government bureaucracy ever does). As far as the 1903 confusion, the only thing that comes to mind is that someone he contacted at the ATF thought it was a Browning designed M1902, which would imply the machine gun rather than the pistol. Quite a difference, but then I don't underestimate the potential for government regulatory confusion. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 3, 2012, 05:12 AM	#2
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	As an 03 FFL holder, you are not eligible to "receive" firearms for other people. Your license is for the sole purpose of enhancing your own collection. I believe his items will have to go an 01 FFL who can obtain the necessary forms from BATF to import these weapons, then transfer them to him. If you were to receive his weapons, you would, in essence, be saying that you were getting the weapons to enhance your own collection. You could, in theory, then transfer them to him at a later date but, if you ever got audited, BATF would more than likely smell a rat. As far as the 1903 Browning, the only thing I can think of is that they were originally in calibre 9mm Browning Long and they must be taking the stand that, because it was converted to .380, it is no longer "original," even though it is my understanding that the Swedes did these conversions in the 1950s to make them sellable in the U.S. As far as whether or not he can get an 03 as a resident alien, you would have to ask BATF about it.

February 3, 2012, 02:48 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"ATF has stated..." Who in ATF? By letter from ATF HQ or the word of a field agent? Like the agency they were once a part of, IRS, BATFE people can tell you anything but you cannot rely on their words or advice. In any such questions, get it in writing. I have no idea why a Browning 1903 pistol would not be a C&R and if it is not, it should be importable to an FFL 01 dealer. The AR-15 is probably non-importable under a law dating to before the (now expired) AWB. Jim

February 5, 2012, 03:40 AM	#9
stickhauler Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Posts: 244	Either way, your friend has to deal with having US Customs accept the guns into the US. I'm betting that's a big old pile of papers that have to be filled out.