M1917

SHE3PDOG · July 30, 2013, 11:52 PM

I've been looking around for an M1917 rifle to add to my milsurp collection, but I honestly have no idea what to look for in one apart from the obvious stuff that applies to purchasing all milsurp guns. So, what should I be looking for in a decent one as far as markings and whatnot go?

Edit: The rifle, not the revolver.

Scorch · July 31, 2013, 03:05 AM

M1917 rifle or revolver?

SHE3PDOG · July 31, 2013, 08:02 AM

I totally forgot that there was also a revolver by that name. I'm speaking of the rifle chambered in 30.06.

m.p.driver · July 31, 2013, 12:15 PM

As far as the most desirable Winchester,Remington,Eddystone in that order.Is one more accurate or dependable than the others,No,the name is what sells.Make sure the barrel is original to that receiver,Marked on top of the barrel behind the front sight,W,R,E,and the month-year,for instance W 9-18.They were later rebuilt for W2 with replacement barrels.Small parts are also marked W,R,E,as is the stock on the muzzle end.Matching marks,stock,blued instead of park,and a decent bore,and it's a keeper.
That's not to say a mix and match isn't fun,i have one i put together out of extra parts,with a CMP replacement Criterion barrel,and it's the best 1917 i have ever shot.

SHE3PDOG · July 31, 2013, 05:51 PM

Sounds good, I mainly wasn't sure where all the identifying markings were. What would be a fair price for one in decent shape? I looked on Gunbroker, but those prices fluctuate way too much for me to get a good read on what might be fair.

James K · July 31, 2013, 09:32 PM

A note on parts markings. Unlike WWII carbines, for example, there was no exchange of parts among the three makers of the Model 1917. If you have a Winchester with a bolt sleeve marked "E", or a Remington stock on an Eddystone, they are replacements.

Jim

SHE3PDOG · August 1, 2013, 12:45 AM

Good to know, I think I will seek out a Winchester, but I'm still uncertain of what a fair price would be for a decent matching numbers rifle. It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least up to what the cmp would call "service grade".

m.p.driver · August 1, 2013, 02:08 PM

Prices have definitely skyrocketed in the last few years.I'm seeing asking prices in the $500-$700 range at the shows.

Slamfire · August 1, 2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Prices have definitely skyrocketed in the last few years.I'm seeing asking prices in the $500-$700 range at the shows

EEK! I cannot afford my rifles. If I trade a M1917 away I can’t afford to buy one back. This only encourages hoarding….

Incidentally, if you see a M1917 with this stock cartouche, OGEK, not only it is a WW2 rebuild, it was personally tested by Elmer Keith at Ogden Arsenal:

I remember in the late 80's or early 90's a bunch of M1917's came back from Canada. They had a notch cut in the back of the receiver ring, I have no idea why as the rifle was originally chambered in 30-06 so there was no need for a clearance notch. And you will see the letter "C" with a broad arrow inside stamped on the stock. Maybe metal parts, I don't remember. I do remember the Canadians stamped a serial number on the bolt, US Ordnance did not.

SHE3PDOG · August 1, 2013, 03:13 PM

I actually did see one with the OGEK cartouche on it, but avoided buying it cause I wasn't sure what it was. I suppose it may have not been a bad deal.

James K · August 1, 2013, 04:07 PM

There has been a lot of discussion about the reason for that receiver notch. The most reasonable one (I don't say correct) is that they were used by Canadian match teams who loaded long bullets farther out for improved accuracy.

Jim

SHE3PDOG · August 1, 2013, 04:31 PM

That does seem like a pretty reasonable explanation. The gun I'm currently looking at is a Winchester with matching numbers. My only concern about it is that the stock says 6H on it on the left side under the receiver. Does this have any significance as a cartouche?

James K · August 1, 2013, 05:34 PM

The Model 1917 rifles did not have inspector's cartouches like the M1903's did, only the eagle head and flaming bomb on the receiver. But those rifles have been around to so many places that they might have about any marks on them. I don't know what 6H might mean; perhaps someone else does.

Jim

SHE3PDOG · August 1, 2013, 08:15 PM

I was unaware of that, James K. The owner claims that it was arsenal refinished, so perhaps the 6H is similar to OGEK in nature. If anyone knows, please share your knowledge.

James K · August 2, 2013, 10:31 PM

Another marking see on 1917's is "3GMK", possibly a rebuild mark. Lots of guesses, some pretty wild, but AFAIK, no solid documentary answer.

Jim

gyvel · August 4, 2013, 02:00 PM

"3GMK"

Allegedly mark used by General Motors for the 45,000 1917 rifles they inspected and repaired.

James K · August 4, 2013, 11:33 PM

Allegedly. I have never seen any documentary evidence.

Jim

gyvel · August 5, 2013, 01:25 PM

Nor have I. That's why I said "allegedly."

July 30, 2013, 11:52 PM	#1
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	M1917 I've been looking around for an M1917 rifle to add to my milsurp collection, but I honestly have no idea what to look for in one apart from the obvious stuff that applies to purchasing all milsurp guns. So, what should I be looking for in a decent one as far as markings and whatnot go? Edit: The rifle, not the revolver. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms Last edited by SHE3PDOG; July 31, 2013 at 08:03 AM.

July 31, 2013, 03:05 AM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	M1917 rifle or revolver? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 31, 2013, 08:02 AM	#3
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I totally forgot that there was also a revolver by that name. I'm speaking of the rifle chambered in 30.06. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

July 31, 2013, 05:51 PM	#5
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	Sounds good, I mainly wasn't sure where all the identifying markings were. What would be a fair price for one in decent shape? I looked on Gunbroker, but those prices fluctuate way too much for me to get a good read on what might be fair. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

August 1, 2013, 12:45 AM	#7
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	Good to know, I think I will seek out a Winchester, but I'm still uncertain of what a fair price would be for a decent matching numbers rifle. It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least up to what the cmp would call "service grade". __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

July 31, 2013, 12:15 PM	#4
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	As far as the most desirable Winchester,Remington,Eddystone in that order.Is one more accurate or dependable than the others,No,the name is what sells.Make sure the barrel is original to that receiver,Marked on top of the barrel behind the front sight,W,R,E,and the month-year,for instance W 9-18.They were later rebuilt for W2 with replacement barrels.Small parts are also marked W,R,E,as is the stock on the muzzle end.Matching marks,stock,blued instead of park,and a decent bore,and it's a keeper. That's not to say a mix and match isn't fun,i have one i put together out of extra parts,with a CMP replacement Criterion barrel,and it's the best 1917 i have ever shot.

July 31, 2013, 09:32 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A note on parts markings. Unlike WWII carbines, for example, there was no exchange of parts among the three makers of the Model 1917. If you have a Winchester with a bolt sleeve marked "E", or a Remington stock on an Eddystone, they are replacements. Jim

August 1, 2013, 02:08 PM	#8
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	Prices have definitely skyrocketed in the last few years.I'm seeing asking prices in the $500-$700 range at the shows.

August 1, 2013, 03:13 PM	#10
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I actually did see one with the OGEK cartouche on it, but avoided buying it cause I wasn't sure what it was. I suppose it may have not been a bad deal. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

August 1, 2013, 04:07 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There has been a lot of discussion about the reason for that receiver notch. The most reasonable one (I don't say correct) is that they were used by Canadian match teams who loaded long bullets farther out for improved accuracy. Jim

August 1, 2013, 04:31 PM	#12
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	That does seem like a pretty reasonable explanation. The gun I'm currently looking at is a Winchester with matching numbers. My only concern about it is that the stock says 6H on it on the left side under the receiver. Does this have any significance as a cartouche? __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

August 1, 2013, 05:34 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Model 1917 rifles did not have inspector's cartouches like the M1903's did, only the eagle head and flaming bomb on the receiver. But those rifles have been around to so many places that they might have about any marks on them. I don't know what 6H might mean; perhaps someone else does. Jim

August 1, 2013, 08:15 PM	#14
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I was unaware of that, James K. The owner claims that it was arsenal refinished, so perhaps the 6H is similar to OGEK in nature. If anyone knows, please share your knowledge. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

August 2, 2013, 10:31 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Another marking see on 1917's is "3GMK", possibly a rebuild mark. Lots of guesses, some pretty wild, but AFAIK, no solid documentary answer. Jim

August 4, 2013, 02:00 PM	#16
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	"3GMK" Allegedly mark used by General Motors for the 45,000 1917 rifles they inspected and repaired.

August 4, 2013, 11:33 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Allegedly. I have never seen any documentary evidence. Jim

August 5, 2013, 01:25 PM	#18
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Nor have I. That's why I said "allegedly."

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