finding the lands of my rifle??

[rude robert]

Hi I read somewhere and trying to see what you guys think about this "method". I took a 30 06 case unprimed, no powder and made a slit in the neck of the case. then I put a 168 gr barns bullet in it( the one with the blue tip) begin to seat it. I put it in the rem 700 cdl and if it didnt chamber. I seat the bullet a little further down until it chambered. the thing is, that if the blue tip was actually off of the bullet, it wouldnt be much longer then the factory rounds from barns that have no tips at all. im just playing around, i usually just make them to or like factory. so, i still trying to see how close i can get the bullet closer to the lands. but so far, it looks like barns wasnt that far off anyways. does this make any sense thx robert

[mkl]

You may be able to find the lands by running a fired case into your sizing die and sizing the first 1/16" or so of the neck. Chamfer the case mouth, and stick in a bullet by hand and see if you have decent friction. Play with the amount of neck sizing until you get enough friction where you can still move the bullet by hand. Insert a bullet in the case and seat just a little, so that when you chamber the round, the lands will push the bullet into the case. Perhaps your "slit neck" case will accomplish the same objective.

Chamber and then eject the round. If you are lucky, the bullet will not stick in the lands. If it does, adjust your sizing die to give less neck tension.

Once you get the round to eject without leaving the bullet stuck in the lands, you now have a cartridge the length of which just touches the lands.

Be aware that the lands contact on the ogive of the bullet, and not the tip. As long as bullet length from base to tip is consistent, you can use the cartridge OAL to set the bullet a certain distance off the lands. If the tip to base length of the bullet varies, so will your OAL measurements, even though the bullet is still the same distance off the lands. Sinclair and others make a gage that allows measurement of cartridge length from the ogive of the bullet, which is really the measurement you want to use.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Just grind the rim off the case so it wont eject and tap the tip of the bullet(after chambering, with a cleaning rod) and the round will fall out with the measurent.

[landcruzr]

here is a link to that method of cutting slits in the case to help determine your OAL
http://www.larrywillis.com/OAL.html

[rude robert]

thx guys now even have more decisions to make lol

[rude robert]

i know there is a special tool out there for this. so im going to ask how much a middle or the road one cost?? not that my wife will let me buy it or anything lol

[mrawesome22]

You don't need any tools. This method works fine.

[rude robert]

i think i found something that measures the bullet ogive from cabelas for 30$. to do this right do i need to get a digital head space gauge too??

[rude robert]

yikes i found the head space gauge for 90$. my wife is going to freak

[mrawesome22]

No. It clamps onto your calipers. But you don't need it. What the heck is a digital head space guage?

[rude robert]

something that cost more money then i can afford

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Chamber_Length

Read about the "Poor Man's Gauge"...this is an easy way to figure out your chamber length. He has a lot of other good info on his site.

[woods]

Here is a tool that will work for all calibers (I reload for over 40 rifles from 223 to 375 Ruger), is cheap ($25.00 when I bought it 4 years ago) and foolproof (helps me out)

The COL E-Z Check from R-P Products 318-424-7867 [email protected] (there is an underscore between the 2 r's which will not show up in the post) shown here with the Hornady (formerly StoneyPoint) OAL Gauge


It is a stainless steel rod with a removable brass tip and 2 locking collets. You just insert the tool down the muzzle to the bolt face (make sure it is cocked) and lock the outside collet


remove the bolt and insert and hold the bullet to the lands and hold it with a dowel


reinsert the tool down to the bullet tip and lock the inside collet


measure between the collets


Gives you 2 smooth hard surfaces to measure between. The only variable is how far you jam the bullet when holding it against the lands.

Randy is the owner of R-P Products and manufactures these on the side but he is a stand up guy and will send you the tool knowing that you will love it and pay him.

Set your seater on the same bullet you measured with and you are good to go.

I have tried virtually all the methods including split cases, marked cleaning rods, Hornady OAL Gauge and Sinclair OAL Gauge but this is the only tool I use now.

[rude robert]

so far this is the result, still working out the other details and trying to confirm this method and being okay to do, and to see if there is anything else i need to do to be safe? thxs... ps i like that tool that is pretty simple to use it looks like

[mrawesome22]

You got it. Just barely seat that bullet in the case then chamber it. Eject, measure from tip to base.

[rude robert]

cool thx 4 info

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

That method is ok to do, but when you chamber the round and it pushes the bullet into the case, the bullet has a tendancy to stick in the lands. Then, when you eject the round for measure, the bullet can be pulled back out of the case slightly giving you a false reading. What I do it grind the rim of the case off so you can't eject it with the bolt. Then, after chambering your round and the bullet has come in contact with the lands, open your bolt....and chances are you round will be stuck in the chamber (because the bullet is stuck in the lands, and you ground the rim off). Now, take a cleaning rod and put it in the barrel thru the muzzle end and give the tip of the bullet a GENTLE tap and the round will come out of the chamber...and that measurement should be accurate. Check it a couple times for reliability. Good luck!!

REMEMBER: This measurement is a COL with the bullet seated ON THE LANDS. Be aware that this affects the pressure, so start at the starting load and work up. Or subtract a little off that COL and go from there.

[reloader28]

Dont waste your time and money on the store bought tools.
IllinoisCoyote Hunter and landcruzer are right on with their suggestions.
I use both these home made tools and they work extremely well. I make them for every caliber I reload for and they stay in the die box.
Loading for several people and several different bullets in each caliber, these cheap tools are some of the handiest things I have.

[dumbodave]

I make a gauge out of a sized/deprimed case for every rifle I reload for. With a full length sized case just gently seat a longish flatbased bullet upside down. Chamber this concoction and when you eject it, you have a very sturdy record of the length of the throat of your barrel. Chambering a bullet with a long ogive gave me inconsistant results I think because there was no way to know how far the bullet was riding the lands. To use this gauge, I mark a bullet that I am loading with the mouth of a sized case by twirling the case on the ogive of the bullet. This always gives me a clearly readable mark very near the point where the bullet reaches it's full diameter. I then compare the length of the gauge to the mark on the bullet to determine seating depth. The difference between the gauge length and the rim to mark on the test round with the mark on the bullet gives me the distance between the bullet and the lands. I realize that this is not exactly accurate, but it gives me a reliable benchmark that I can use.

[Jim243]

This is not rocket science, so why is everone making it like it is.

If your too darn cheap to buy the Hornady LNL gauge ($25.00) then just use your cleaning rod and a felt tip pen.

1. With the bolt closed - put your cleaning rod in the barrel till it stops on the face of the bolt and mark the cleaning rod.

2. with a bullet in the chamber (without a case) push the bullet in till it stops on the liine and groves - put your cleaning rod back in the barrel till it stops and mark it again.

3. Measure the distance between the two lines - and that is YOUR MAX OAL for THAT bullet in THAT rifle. No big deal.

Don't forget to push that bullet out of the chanber after you make your second line.


Jim

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

This is not rocket science, so why is everone making it like it is.

I didn't think we were making it like rocket science. I think we (at least I was) were trying to save the OP some money. I am sorry Jim, but I am having a hard time even understanding your post. In fact, your post is like rocket science to me.

Patience is a virtue. We were all beginners at one time. And one other thing I have learned over the years: Just because it is your idea or the way YOU do it does not make it the easiest or the best.

EDIT: Ok, Jim, after re-reading your post I see how you are doing it. I am not sure how you get an accurate (to the thousandth of an inch) measurment from this method. Please explain. Thanks!

[Jim243]

It's as accurate as you are going to get without buying the gauge, I bought mine a couple of years ago and set my bullets 0.020 from the lands for the jump.

No one here even bothers to explain the differences between one bullet manufacturer to the next even on the same weight bullet and how they are designed (well at least not well). Or how one rifle will want a jump and another will want the bullet right to the lands. Or the effect of a burnt out throat (Eroded) and how he will not be able to set his OAL to max because the bullet will fall out of the case.


The simple answer is GO BUY THE GAUGE AND QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE COST.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

OK, Jim....the OP did not ask about bullet jump, or seating right on the lands. He has obviously done some of his homework and realizes that finding this measurement is important...so we are trying to help him out so he doesn't have to spend $25.

Ya know, Jim, $25 may be A LOT of money for someone. I know a lot of people that reload that wouldn't be able to afford that. Once again, we are trying to save the OP money and showing him how to use the components he already has to make a gauge to determine the COL when seated on the lands. When he finds this measurement, he can figure out if he wants to seat the bullet on the lands or have just a little bullet jump.

No one is complaining Jim. Next time, please leave your arrogance at home.

BTW, you still haven't explained how you get an accurate measurement with your method. Once again, can you explain how you get an accurate measurement to the thousandth of an inch?

[mapsjanhere]

I like Jim's method, I'm (not yet) an accuracy freak, but his method should work, for free. As for $25 being a lot of money, that doesn't buy you a box of the bullets the OP is playing with. If you're loading 80 cents/bullet ammo where you worry about COL specific to your rifle, spend the money for the right tool.

[rude robert]

thx for the info guys what does op mean? lol