Any advantage to using expensive high end brass?

[DaveInPA]

I'm going to start toying around with hand loading .223 for precision accuracy at 200 yards. Is there really any advantage to using expensive, high end brass? For example, Norma brass is OVER A DOLLAR PER CASE. That seems insane. Any point to it?

As of now, I have Remington (RP stamp), WCC (Winchester military), Winchester commercial stamp, S&B, and Federal brass on hand. What brands of brass have you guys had good luck with in precision .223 loads?

[Sevens]

I think if you've got some oddball, near wildcat or perhaps a defunct old caliber, getting a hold of some Lapua or Norma might make some sense. Seems to me that it's going to last as long or longer than any other brand, but I'll admit freely that I have no experience with uber-expensive brass.

.223? This is second only to .308 (hell, maybe it's first?) in popularity. Nobody would say that .223 brass is scarce. It's way, way beyond plentiful.

IMO, there's SO MUCH OF THIS STUFF out there, you'd be goofy to spend money on expensive brass.

For me, I use all Lake City brass, and all of it gets sent out my my 14-inch Contender. 3/4" groups at 100 yards are easy. (haven't had the opportunity to try 200 yards)

I've seen trouble with S&B brass in other calibers, but I only have experience with LC brass in .223.

For your serious accuracy work at 200 yards, I'd pick ONE of whatever you have (whichever you have the most of!) and try that. Don't mix your brass, that won't help with accuracy.

[slotracer577]

Although its not 223, the latest handloader has a test on 308 to see what components have the most effect on accuracy, brass did have an effect, but not a big one. The Lapua and Norma brass did seem to offer a few more reloads than some of the cheaper brass, but remington brass did 19 cycles to the Norma's 23 and the Lapua's 14. They did note that POI varied between brass, so you dont want to mix brass.

The biggest change to accuracy was the bullet and seating depth.

John

[amamnn]

IMHO Norma has too high an opinion of themselves. The alloys used in their brass and Lapua and Nosler (which are less expensive as opposed to cheaper)will work to make the useful life of the brass longer assuming you are not FL sizing a very loose chamber every time and do have some clue as how to anneal cases properly.

If you are not loading for matches or long range varmint shooting, you may not care to spend the extra money to get brass that stays consistent over the long haul. It would not really translate into better accuracy over time in an off the shelf hunter/plinker rifle as opposed to using standard brass and recycling it when it goes south.

[Primered]

My experience has been that Winchester, .223 brass works as well as Lapua in my AR. In .308, I don't know about improved accuracy with the Lapua, but it lasts and lasts.

[10 Spot Terminator]

One of the hundred or so shooting mags I have read over the past few months actually put this subject to the test and overall in the 2 rifles they used, one an assult fifle and the other a bolt action did give only a teensey weensey edge to Lapau and an even smaller edge to Norma and that was for most consistant weight of the cases and also the uniform thickness of the case necks out of the box . As for the accuracy it was Remington that came out top dog but by such an insignifigant margine that the author said if he ran the test again it could change. Benchrest / target shooting requires you to meticulously prep your brass no matter the make ( weighing, sorting, neck trimming, neck sizing etc. ) so why spend the big money if you cant just load them out of the box and shoot ragged holes ????

[kraigwy]

I think you'll find most High Power shooters using the 223 either use LC or Winchester brass, neither are considered HIGH END.

I've seen a lot of clean HP targets using both LC and Winchester Brass.

I've tried Lapua but it didnt work in my rifles any better then LC or Wincherster. I certainly couldnt justify the extra cost.

[DIXIEDOG]

The high end brass is usually alot closer to being fully processed, you don't need to deburr flash holes and things along that line. The only Norma brass I have is for .270 Winchester and I'm still working on the original 40 casings after 15+ reloads so it is durable but still overpriced in my opinion. I generally just go with LC or Win brass and do the case prop myself.

[Slamfire]

I read the latest issue of Handloader. The 308 article was interesting. The author varied all sorts of things, cases, primers, bullets, and measured things accuracy wise.

Brass did not have as much influence on accuracy as bullets.

I believe that if you use a set of good American brass, LC, Winchester (my favorite commerical .223 brass) or Remington, it will be hard to improve the accuracy of your groups by changing brass.

Federal shoots well, but the pockets expand in a couple of firings.

S&B, east european stuff, I don't care for that stuff. IMI is very good.

[Unclenick]

Whether or not you get an obvious accuracy improvement from any tweak to the gun or ammunition depends on how may other accuracy error factors there are influencing your groups? The less significant accuracy factors, like case precision, will often be camouflaged by more significant sources of error. Only when the other errors get small does it show up. In guns shooting below half an moa, you will see gross case errors like the one I describe below pretty plainly. If you have a quarter moa gun, you will easily see smaller errors and the further you go out in range, the more apparent they will become.

As an example of a worst case error, the last time I got 1000 Winchester .308 cases I sorted them all with the NECO case gauge. Only about 20% approached the neck and web wall runout consistency of Lapua and Norma brass, plus they needed prepping done to them. Those were set aside for 600-1000 yard ammo. These were the cases with total indicated runout of about 0.001" or less at the case neck and 0.002" or less at the web just ahead of the pressure ring. One Winchester case, however, had 0.008" TIR at the neck. That's enough to set the bullet off axis by 0.004". A study of measured runout done on .30-06 M72 match ammo in the sixties showed that bullets 0.004" off axis remain misaligned in the bore enough to open a group up to about an moa, and that would be firing a bunch of rounds with that same runout in random orientation in the bore. Note, however, that I only had one case that bad. A single such round would only open a group up half that group diameter. The next worst cases in the lot were several with half that runout, so I would have had to fire a group of 1000 rounds using all those new cases loaded and fired perfectly to see that extreme's effect once. Most cases in the lot were in the 0.002" runout range.

Sorting is the key, I think. Pick out critical brass for critical circumstances, and set aside the real oddballs for making dummies. The 0.002" TIR so-so brass can still shoot a quarter moa if you have a gun and loading and shooting technique that is up to it.

[Hawg]

I reload for 30-06 and when I need brass I buy Remingtons from Wally World and shoot'em up then reload them the way I want them. My guns already shoot better than I do so expensive brass is a waste of money.