Pat Marlin Checkmaker problems

TheFlip · July 20, 2014, 07:33 PM

I recently purchased a check making die from Pat Marlin's and I have had nothing but trouble. Though it is overkill on acp, I decided to go for plain-base .452 and, depending on how it worked out, buying more from there.

The process of actually making the checks works flawlessly, and I end up with perfect looking little specimens. I use 98% copper alloy (the remainder being trace amounts of zinc, silicon and tellurium) at a thickness of 0.0100", which I found out later is too thick, and 0.0065", which is near the middle of the company's recommended thickness range.

The cast bullets are Lee's TL452-230-2R, cast in an approximately 95% : 5% lead : tin ratio (with a small percentage antimony, copper, silver and unknown alloys from solder and other various sources I've collected over the years) and quenched in an ice water bath out of the mold. The first batch was about a month old when I tried my first applications on my Lee sizing die and the results were less than stellar.

Instead of crimping onto the base and sizing along with the bullet through the die, the check is forced backwards and I end up with a shredded, reverse facing check, and a bullet with a mangled base.

I contacted West Coast Engineering with my problem, and they suggested that my alloy was too hard, pointing out that the instructions recommended application of the checks the same day as casting.

This prompted me to perform my experiment today. Same mold, pure sinker lead, and bullets cast and dropped onto a soft towel to air cool on a hot day. With the research I've done on the subject along with my limited experience, I surmised that this should produce one hell of a soft bullet.

As soon as they were cool enough to touch, it was straight to the bench and. . .

Same results.

It's even more vexing to watch the multitude of Youtube videos demonstrating the smooth, easy and trouble free use of these check makers.

My question is, judging by what I've recounted here (feel free to ask in case I've neglected to mention anything important), am I doing something wrong or what?

Vance · July 20, 2014, 09:11 PM

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I used a Pat Marlins plain base check maker for 357 mag. I used pop can aluminum to form mine. They sized on the bullets just fine. However, when I fired thos bullets out my gun, I would find the checks at my feet. Some have superglued them on to solve that problem, but I preferred buying a gas checked bullet mold to use standard gas checks and that problem went away for me. Now I find them at the target on the ground or still attached to the bullet when I recover them.

Goatwhiskers · July 21, 2014, 07:19 AM

Making the presumption that you're using a Lee sizing die, run your boolits thru it base first. Sounds as tho your check is catching on the edge of the die. GW

FrankenMauser · July 21, 2014, 11:44 AM

My thoughts were along the same lines as Goatwhiskers...
Have you tried sizing the bullets and crimping the 'check by feeding base-first?

The bullet you're using is a bevel-base design. Are your gas checks tall enough to even crimp above the bevel?

And...
Is your sizing die larger enough to accept the gas check and bullet? Or are the checks catching on the mouth of the die, before they even have a chance to get squeezed?

TheFlip · July 22, 2014, 12:01 AM

Yes, using a Lee sizing die.

I followed Goatwhiskers' advice today and tried base first. I ended up with a flattened nose and a check with it's walls shredded off.

The checks are the same size as commercially made checks, except lighter gauge, about 0.09" tall, so they're plenty tall enough to go beyond the bevel.

As for the sizing die, I'm not sure. All of the videos I've dug up show a Lubri-Sizer type tool, so I may end up having to spring for one, which would be disappointing. This may end up being a $94 life lesson, until I get the tool I need.

Beagle333 · July 22, 2014, 12:11 AM

My experience..... and solution.
Basically the metal is grabbing the die. Both Al and Cu will do it.
But slick 'er up mirror smooth with some 800-1000 grit and apply a little lube (I just touch em with some mink oil before shoving through) and they come out great!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...and-thicker-Al

July 20, 2014, 07:33 PM	#1
TheFlip Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2014 Location: Western New York Posts: 5	Pat Marlin Checkmaker problems I recently purchased a check making die from Pat Marlin's and I have had nothing but trouble. Though it is overkill on acp, I decided to go for plain-base .452 and, depending on how it worked out, buying more from there. The process of actually making the checks works flawlessly, and I end up with perfect looking little specimens. I use 98% copper alloy (the remainder being trace amounts of zinc, silicon and tellurium) at a thickness of 0.0100", which I found out later is too thick, and 0.0065", which is near the middle of the company's recommended thickness range. The cast bullets are Lee's TL452-230-2R, cast in an approximately 95% : 5% lead : tin ratio (with a small percentage antimony, copper, silver and unknown alloys from solder and other various sources I've collected over the years) and quenched in an ice water bath out of the mold. The first batch was about a month old when I tried my first applications on my Lee sizing die and the results were less than stellar. Instead of crimping onto the base and sizing along with the bullet through the die, the check is forced backwards and I end up with a shredded, reverse facing check, and a bullet with a mangled base. I contacted West Coast Engineering with my problem, and they suggested that my alloy was too hard, pointing out that the instructions recommended application of the checks the same day as casting. This prompted me to perform my experiment today. Same mold, pure sinker lead, and bullets cast and dropped onto a soft towel to air cool on a hot day. With the research I've done on the subject along with my limited experience, I surmised that this should produce one hell of a soft bullet. As soon as they were cool enough to touch, it was straight to the bench and. . . Same results. It's even more vexing to watch the multitude of Youtube videos demonstrating the smooth, easy and trouble free use of these check makers. My question is, judging by what I've recounted here (feel free to ask in case I've neglected to mention anything important), am I doing something wrong or what?

July 21, 2014, 11:44 AM	#4
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	My thoughts were along the same lines as Goatwhiskers... Have you tried sizing the bullets and crimping the 'check by feeding base-first? The bullet you're using is a bevel-base design. Are your gas checks tall enough to even crimp above the bevel? And... Is your sizing die larger enough to accept the gas check and bullet? Or are the checks catching on the mouth of the die, before they even have a chance to get squeezed? __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

July 22, 2014, 12:11 AM	#6
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	My experience..... and solution. Basically the metal is grabbing the die. Both Al and Cu will do it. But slick 'er up mirror smooth with some 800-1000 grit and apply a little lube (I just touch em with some mink oil before shoving through) and they come out great! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...and-thicker-Al __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

July 20, 2014, 09:11 PM	#2
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I used a Pat Marlins plain base check maker for 357 mag. I used pop can aluminum to form mine. They sized on the bullets just fine. However, when I fired thos bullets out my gun, I would find the checks at my feet. Some have superglued them on to solve that problem, but I preferred buying a gas checked bullet mold to use standard gas checks and that problem went away for me. Now I find them at the target on the ground or still attached to the bullet when I recover them.

July 21, 2014, 07:19 AM	#3
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	Making the presumption that you're using a Lee sizing die, run your boolits thru it base first. Sounds as tho your check is catching on the edge of the die. GW

July 22, 2014, 12:01 AM	#5
TheFlip Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2014 Location: Western New York Posts: 5	Yes, using a Lee sizing die. I followed Goatwhiskers' advice today and tried base first. I ended up with a flattened nose and a check with it's walls shredded off. The checks are the same size as commercially made checks, except lighter gauge, about 0.09" tall, so they're plenty tall enough to go beyond the bevel. As for the sizing die, I'm not sure. All of the videos I've dug up show a Lubri-Sizer type tool, so I may end up having to spring for one, which would be disappointing. This may end up being a $94 life lesson, until I get the tool I need.