denial/appeal

RonT · October 12, 2010, 01:42 PM

hey guys, great forum just found it today, ok i got a denial on a fire arm purchase which is bull, they are trying to get me on title 18 sections 921/922 which is a conviction of a felony exceeding one year or misdemeanor exceeding two years in prison. i was convicted of a misdemeanor not exceeding one year(served 4 days the rest suspended). so this is mistake for sure. but in the way they write it it says punishable for a term exceeding one year, so do they really mean your specific term in the judgment or the punishable term in the general crime, see what i mean. this is crazy anyway since i have been approved by the nics background check purchasing handguns more than once in the past couple of years in a different city now i get denied when i move here. what the hell. thanks for any advise

RonT · October 12, 2010, 01:48 PM

by the way i did send in finger prints with my first letter so they can make sure its me. i have a print out of the chronological case summary from the courthouse in the given county where it clearly shows my disposition and everything. is this even worth mailing in to them since it is not the original certified documents with an embossed agency seal like they require? probably not right?

Renfield · October 12, 2010, 02:45 PM

what were you convicted of?

g.willikers · October 12, 2010, 07:54 PM

Welcome to the forum.
Wish it was for something more pleasant.
Pretty sure that the actual time in jail is not what counts.
But rather the time stated for the conviction in the law.
But for something as important as this, you should really not be asking anyone other than an experienced lawyer.

Sefner · October 12, 2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g.willikers

you should really not be asking anyone other than an experienced lawyer.

This.

Al Norris · October 12, 2010, 09:46 PM

RonT, you are reading the statute wrong.

18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1): It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

The bolded part above means exactly what it says. If whatever you were convicted of, could have been punished by a term exceeding 1 year, not what you were actually sentenced to, you have become a prohibited person.

RonT · October 13, 2010, 11:31 AM

the letter i got states "either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features has been matched with the following federally prohibitive criteria under title 18 sections 921a(20) and 922(g)1. A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years."
i was convicted in 2002 of a class A Misdemeanor (maintaining a common nuisance) not exceeding one year. I'm not a felon and have no domestic violence, so i should not be dealing with this crap right?

RonT · October 13, 2010, 11:36 AM

i wonder why i had no problems buying guns in 09' (just a two day hold) and now i get denied, nothing has changed on my record.

BarryLee · October 13, 2010, 11:44 AM

An attorney is really the best way to proceed. I heard someone state that you can petition to have your record expunged in certain situations. Only an attorney can tell you what if any real options you have.

RonT · October 13, 2010, 11:50 AM

according to my states criminal offense level code a Class "A" misdemeanor conviction carries a penalty of imprisonment for a fixed term of up to one (1) year and a fine of up to $5,000.00.

RonT · October 13, 2010, 11:58 AM

my charge was reduced from a d felony to an a misdemeanor, so i'm sure thats where the problem is, someone at nics didn't read all of my file or something. calling my lawyer tomorrow. thanks for the input. damn, i guess that pretty little glock 21sf will just have to wait till this is all sorted

BarryLee · October 13, 2010, 12:05 PM

I apologize ahead of time for seeming to pry, but you did bring it up. Isn’t maintaining a common nuisance a drug related crime? So, aren’t drug related misdemeanors handled differently than non-drug related cases?

dogtown tom · October 13, 2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

RonT: ...when i move here...

Where is "here"?
It would help to know your state of residency as some states do not deal directly with the FBI NICS, but with a state agency.

Quote:

RonT by the way i did send in finger prints with my first letter so they can make sure its me. i have a print out of the chronological case summary from the courthouse in the given county where it clearly shows my disposition and everything. is this even worth mailing in to them since it is not the original certified documents with an embossed agency seal like they require? probably not right?

I assume this "first letter" was a NICS appeal? If you didn't send them what is needed you will sit there without a gun for a long time. If you know they require "original certified documents with an embossed agency seal" why the heck are you asking us what is wrong???? YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.

Quote:

g.willikers:...But for something as important as this, you should really not be asking anyone other than an experienced lawyer.

For a NICS appeal a lawyer is not needed and is a waste of $$$. When a purchaser is denied by FBI NICS they are given information on how to appeal that determination. Usually it includes fingerprints and a certified copy of court documents. If the documents or prints provide the FBI with proof of identity or information showing that the individual was denied in error, they will issue a "proceed" for that transaction. The purchaser can choose to allow the FBI to keep a Voluntary Appeal File open for future firearms purchases.
If the appeal is denied due to information on the court documents then a lawyer would be needed to correct any errors in those documents.

Quote:

RonT the letter i got states "either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features has been matched with the following federally prohibitive criteria...

i was convicted in 2002 of a class A Misdemeanor (maintaining a common nuisance) not exceeding one year. I'm not a felon and have no domestic violence, so i should not be dealing with this crap right?

Read the bolded portion above. It may not be you, but you'll have to deal with it.

Quote:

RonT i wonder why i had no problems buying guns in 09' (just a two day hold) and now i get denied, nothing has changed on my record.

The FBI NICS database is at the mercy of city, county and state databases- information from your court may have not been entered in a timely manner.
And as noted above it may not be you, but someone with a similiar name or description.

Quote:

BarryLee An attorney is really the best way to proceed. I heard someone state that you can petition to have your record expunged in certain situations. Only an attorney can tell you what if any real options you have.

Nope. Paying an attorney at this stage is a waste of money until the OP submits his fingerprints and documents to the FBI.
If his appeal is denied THEN he will have need for an attorney.

BarryLee · October 13, 2010, 01:54 PM

Ok, I stand corrected.

I made the assumption that the OP had followed the formal appeal process and was still being denied. After re-reading the post I see that may not be the case.

RonT · October 14, 2010, 11:07 AM

yes dog, the first letter was the appeal. the fbi is now in possession of my fingerprint card that i sent with appeal. the letter they mailed me 5 days later stated reason for denial and that i can mail them original documents(which i don't have) if i believe i am the individual meeting the criteria.(which i probably am). question is are they considering my class a misdemeanor (which does not exceed one year in any conviction) still to be prohibitive circumstances. guess i'll find out when they verify my identity huh

October 12, 2010, 01:42 PM	#1
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	denial/appeal hey guys, great forum just found it today, ok i got a denial on a fire arm purchase which is bull, they are trying to get me on title 18 sections 921/922 which is a conviction of a felony exceeding one year or misdemeanor exceeding two years in prison. i was convicted of a misdemeanor not exceeding one year(served 4 days the rest suspended). so this is mistake for sure. but in the way they write it it says punishable for a term exceeding one year, so do they really mean your specific term in the judgment or the punishable term in the general crime, see what i mean. this is crazy anyway since i have been approved by the nics background check purchasing handguns more than once in the past couple of years in a different city now i get denied when i move here. what the hell. thanks for any advise

October 12, 2010, 02:45 PM	#3
Renfield Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: just down the street Posts: 599	what were you convicted of? __________________ "Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest" Benjamin Franklin "In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" Martin Luther King, Jr. "Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

October 12, 2010, 09:46 PM	#6
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	RonT, you are reading the statute wrong. 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1): It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. The bolded part above means exactly what it says. If whatever you were convicted of, could have been punished by a term exceeding 1 year, not what you were actually sentenced to, you have become a prohibited person.

October 13, 2010, 11:44 AM	#9
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	An attorney is really the best way to proceed. I heard someone state that you can petition to have your record expunged in certain situations. Only an attorney can tell you what if any real options you have. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

October 13, 2010, 11:58 AM	#11
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	my charge was reduced from a d felony to an a misdemeanor, so i'm sure thats where the problem is, someone at nics didn't read all of my file or something. calling my lawyer tomorrow. thanks for the input. damn, i guess that pretty little glock 21sf will just have to wait till this is all sorted Last edited by RonT; October 13, 2010 at 12:06 PM.

October 12, 2010, 01:48 PM	#2
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	by the way i did send in finger prints with my first letter so they can make sure its me. i have a print out of the chronological case summary from the courthouse in the given county where it clearly shows my disposition and everything. is this even worth mailing in to them since it is not the original certified documents with an embossed agency seal like they require? probably not right?

October 12, 2010, 07:54 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Welcome to the forum. Wish it was for something more pleasant. Pretty sure that the actual time in jail is not what counts. But rather the time stated for the conviction in the law. But for something as important as this, you should really not be asking anyone other than an experienced lawyer.

October 13, 2010, 11:31 AM	#7
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	the letter i got states "either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features has been matched with the following federally prohibitive criteria under title 18 sections 921a(20) and 922(g)1. A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years." i was convicted in 2002 of a class A Misdemeanor (maintaining a common nuisance) not exceeding one year. I'm not a felon and have no domestic violence, so i should not be dealing with this crap right?

October 13, 2010, 11:36 AM	#8
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	i wonder why i had no problems buying guns in 09' (just a two day hold) and now i get denied, nothing has changed on my record.

October 13, 2010, 11:50 AM	#10
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	according to my states criminal offense level code a Class "A" misdemeanor conviction carries a penalty of imprisonment for a fixed term of up to one (1) year and a fine of up to $5,000.00.

October 13, 2010, 12:05 PM	#12
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I apologize ahead of time for seeming to pry, but you did bring it up. Isn’t maintaining a common nuisance a drug related crime? So, aren’t drug related misdemeanors handled differently than non-drug related cases? __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

October 13, 2010, 01:54 PM	#14
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Ok, I stand corrected. I made the assumption that the OP had followed the formal appeal process and was still being denied. After re-reading the post I see that may not be the case. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

October 14, 2010, 11:07 AM	#15
RonT Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 7	yes dog, the first letter was the appeal. the fbi is now in possession of my fingerprint card that i sent with appeal. the letter they mailed me 5 days later stated reason for denial and that i can mail them original documents(which i don't have) if i believe i am the individual meeting the criteria.(which i probably am). question is are they considering my class a misdemeanor (which does not exceed one year in any conviction) still to be prohibitive circumstances. guess i'll find out when they verify my identity huh Last edited by RonT; October 14, 2010 at 11:24 AM.

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