Mauser barrel is STUCK!! - Page 2

mwells72774 · May 27, 2013, 07:30 PM

Since it was a short chamber barrel, ive gotta finish ream ot

wpsdlrg · May 27, 2013, 10:45 PM

Well good. With a short-chambered barrel, as you said, you'll have to finish ream anyway. So, the next thing to do is to determine if you need to remove any material from the barrel shoulder (at the end of the threads), or the receiver face, so that you can safely torque the barrel to 75 lbs/ft or so, without damaging the threads. I assume that you do not need to index the barrel for iron sights, or a "safety breech", so that is not an issue.

One question. Since you had to "modify" the threads.... is the barrel shank loose against the receiver threads, when partially screwed in ? By that, I mean, will the barrel rattle about, when only partially screwed in ? If so, this is not good. The barrel should thread into the receiver with no excess movement, indicating that the threads (of both) are compatible. Hopefully, the fit is good.

I agree with F.Guffey, for what it's worth, that 0.003" will be about right, give or take, for a gap between the receiver ring and barrel shoulder - BEFORE final torquing of the barrel. You can cut back the receiver face....or the barrel shoulder....either will do, to produce the gap needed. Starting with that sort of gap, then torquing the barrel to 75 - 80 lbs/ft, you should have no gap, in the end. That will snug everything up and produce support for the barrel in two places (the barrel face and barrel shoulder), which is desirable. But, it will not cause damage to the threads.

mwells72774 · May 27, 2013, 11:16 PM

Its snug. No wobble at all. Going to rent a pull through reamer

wpsdlrg · May 28, 2013, 05:30 PM

Terrific ! You are "in business". Once you have the gap you need, you can go ahead and install the new barrel.....and torque it down. Thread dope is optional, of course. You can just lightly oil the threads....or you can apply NON-permanent thread locker, if you wish. I like to use a bit of thread dope, simply to protect the threads from future corrosion. Your call.

You also have a set of headspace gauges, right ? You will need them, of course.

If you've never reamed a chamber.... a word about that. Be sure to follow the directions EXACTLY. It is very easy to damage a reamer by improper use. Ream only a VERY small amount at a time, then check the headspace. We are talking about not too many thousands of an inch between minimum acceptable headspace and excessive headspace. You obviously can ream more, if needed....but once you've gone too far, you can't get it back.

F. Guffey · May 29, 2013, 07:05 AM

Pull through reamer? The pull through reamer is a done deal, it is advertised as nothing can go wrong, when using the pull through reamer the chamber is reamed/finished when the bolt closes.

I would not have recommended the pull through reamer for the first build, I measure the length of the short chamber first by transferring the dimensions to the receiver, I cut the chamber in the barrel first then install the barrel to finish if necessary.

Once the case head protrusion is known the person cutting the chamber should know how far the chamber must be reamed to finish. Go slow and easy and use an approved fluid.

Then the ‘out of curiosity’ question, are you a reloader.

F. Guffey

mwells72774 · May 29, 2013, 09:40 AM

The reason I want to go with a pull through reamer is so I dont have the added cost of gauges.

Yes, I do load. Traded into 300 165gr hornady SST's

Dixie Gunsmithing · May 29, 2013, 11:50 AM

You'll have to have a go gauge. The go gauge lets you know when the reamer is deep enough, as you ream the chamber, until the bolt closes on the go gauge.

mwells72774 · May 29, 2013, 12:02 PM

In the instructions for the reamer, soon as the bolt closes its properly headspaced

Dixie Gunsmithing · May 29, 2013, 12:12 PM

You may be all right, but I always check with a set of Clymer gauges, both go and no go. Of course, when I get to the finish, the bolt closes snug on a go gauge, so it kind of makes a no go no use, but I really like to check that any reamer is correct. I have seen a few instances of them being off.

F. Guffey · May 29, 2013, 01:12 PM

"Pull through reamer? The pull through reamer is a done deal, it is advertised as nothing can go wrong, when using the pull through reamer the chamber is reamed/finished when the bolt closes"

Correct, when the bolt closes the chamber is done. I do not shoot gages, I shoot loaded ammo, because my presses and my dies have threads I can adjust the length of my cases from the shoulder of the case to the head of the case. My cases have a case that off sets head space. to determine head space I measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. My cases do not have head space, my cases have a length, the length of my case is measured from the datum to the head of the case.

Then there are other bolts, to determine 'other bolts' and their uses would require an Internet search..

F. Guffey

mwells72774 · May 29, 2013, 01:22 PM

Post black oxide

uploadfromtaptalk1369851735309.jpg

Gunplummer · May 29, 2013, 02:53 PM

The thread in the receiver probably was 55*. I don't know about foreign contract Mausers, but Germany was still using the Whitworth configuration (English 55*) prior to and during WWII. For years everybody has been jamming 60* threaded barrels into Mauser actions and the average customer (And Gunsmith) never knew the difference. No big deal.

Square threads stronger? I doubt that. There is not even a small fillet at the base of a square thread.

F. Guffey · May 30, 2013, 10:39 AM

http://books.google.com/books?id=kfH...20acme&f=false

I left out the part where the buttress thread was mentioned and there was the trapezoid thread. Old and known technology, and no one ever wondered why one rifle had tapered threads and another rifle had square threads.

F. Guffey

Gunplummer · May 30, 2013, 02:52 PM

When I want to use a barrel stub as a "Power screw" I will keep that info in mind. Buttress threads are pretty much used in applications where you want to "Lock" but not "Lock up". Takedown gun barrels, cannon breeches, adjustable wrenches, ect. Technology? If you follow military gun production over the years it is easy to see that the screws and threads became finer and finer. The truth is early shops had a hard time with thread making. Early machine screws on guns are so course they look like wood screws.

Dixie Gunsmithing · May 30, 2013, 03:04 PM

Gunplummer;

I thought about cannon breeches too, but didn't mention them. You are correct, in that the threads are used if you want to make something easily removable. Military rifles are meant to be torn down, by armorers, and fixed, or new barrels re-fitted, and that may happen several times during their tenure with the military. I would say that was the original thought at the time, but later, everybody standardized on the V thread. A long time back, in the 1920's and before, there were a whole slew of threads being used that we never see today.

Gunplummer · May 31, 2013, 10:32 AM

I used to think the gun companies did it to make you buy parts from them, but you are right, there was no standardization of threads in the early 1900's. Look at some of the early guns and it appears they went out of their way to avoid using a machine screw when ever they could.

May 27, 2013, 07:30 PM	#26
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Re: Mauser barrel is STUCK!! Since it was a short chamber barrel, ive gotta finish ream ot

May 27, 2013, 11:16 PM	#28
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Re: Mauser barrel is STUCK!! Its snug. No wobble at all. Going to rent a pull through reamer

May 29, 2013, 09:40 AM	#31
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Re: Mauser barrel is STUCK!! The reason I want to go with a pull through reamer is so I dont have the added cost of gauges. Yes, I do load. Traded into 300 165gr hornady SST's

May 29, 2013, 12:02 PM	#33
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Re: Mauser barrel is STUCK!! In the instructions for the reamer, soon as the bolt closes its properly headspaced

May 29, 2013, 01:22 PM	#36
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Re: Mauser barrel is STUCK!! Post black oxide uploadfromtaptalk1369851735309.jpg

May 27, 2013, 10:45 PM	#27
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	Well good. With a short-chambered barrel, as you said, you'll have to finish ream anyway. So, the next thing to do is to determine if you need to remove any material from the barrel shoulder (at the end of the threads), or the receiver face, so that you can safely torque the barrel to 75 lbs/ft or so, without damaging the threads. I assume that you do not need to index the barrel for iron sights, or a "safety breech", so that is not an issue. One question. Since you had to "modify" the threads.... is the barrel shank loose against the receiver threads, when partially screwed in ? By that, I mean, will the barrel rattle about, when only partially screwed in ? If so, this is not good. The barrel should thread into the receiver with no excess movement, indicating that the threads (of both) are compatible. Hopefully, the fit is good. I agree with F.Guffey, for what it's worth, that 0.003" will be about right, give or take, for a gap between the receiver ring and barrel shoulder - BEFORE final torquing of the barrel. You can cut back the receiver face....or the barrel shoulder....either will do, to produce the gap needed. Starting with that sort of gap, then torquing the barrel to 75 - 80 lbs/ft, you should have no gap, in the end. That will snug everything up and produce support for the barrel in two places (the barrel face and barrel shoulder), which is desirable. But, it will not cause damage to the threads.

May 28, 2013, 05:30 PM	#29
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	Terrific ! You are "in business". Once you have the gap you need, you can go ahead and install the new barrel.....and torque it down. Thread dope is optional, of course. You can just lightly oil the threads....or you can apply NON-permanent thread locker, if you wish. I like to use a bit of thread dope, simply to protect the threads from future corrosion. Your call. You also have a set of headspace gauges, right ? You will need them, of course. If you've never reamed a chamber.... a word about that. Be sure to follow the directions EXACTLY. It is very easy to damage a reamer by improper use. Ream only a VERY small amount at a time, then check the headspace. We are talking about not too many thousands of an inch between minimum acceptable headspace and excessive headspace. You obviously can ream more, if needed....but once you've gone too far, you can't get it back.

May 29, 2013, 07:05 AM	#30
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Pull through reamer? The pull through reamer is a done deal, it is advertised as nothing can go wrong, when using the pull through reamer the chamber is reamed/finished when the bolt closes. I would not have recommended the pull through reamer for the first build, I measure the length of the short chamber first by transferring the dimensions to the receiver, I cut the chamber in the barrel first then install the barrel to finish if necessary. Once the case head protrusion is known the person cutting the chamber should know how far the chamber must be reamed to finish. Go slow and easy and use an approved fluid. Then the ‘out of curiosity’ question, are you a reloader. F. Guffey

May 29, 2013, 11:50 AM	#32
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	You'll have to have a go gauge. The go gauge lets you know when the reamer is deep enough, as you ream the chamber, until the bolt closes on the go gauge.

May 29, 2013, 12:12 PM	#34
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	You may be all right, but I always check with a set of Clymer gauges, both go and no go. Of course, when I get to the finish, the bolt closes snug on a go gauge, so it kind of makes a no go no use, but I really like to check that any reamer is correct. I have seen a few instances of them being off.

May 29, 2013, 01:12 PM	#35
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"Pull through reamer? The pull through reamer is a done deal, it is advertised as nothing can go wrong, when using the pull through reamer the chamber is reamed/finished when the bolt closes" Correct, when the bolt closes the chamber is done. I do not shoot gages, I shoot loaded ammo, because my presses and my dies have threads I can adjust the length of my cases from the shoulder of the case to the head of the case. My cases have a case that off sets head space. to determine head space I measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. My cases do not have head space, my cases have a length, the length of my case is measured from the datum to the head of the case. Then there are other bolts, to determine 'other bolts' and their uses would require an Internet search.. F. Guffey

May 29, 2013, 02:53 PM	#37
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	The thread in the receiver probably was 55. I don't know about foreign contract Mausers, but Germany was still using the Whitworth configuration (English 55) prior to and during WWII. For years everybody has been jamming 60* threaded barrels into Mauser actions and the average customer (And Gunsmith) never knew the difference. No big deal. Square threads stronger? I doubt that. There is not even a small fillet at the base of a square thread.

May 30, 2013, 10:39 AM	#38
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://books.google.com/books?id=kfH...20acme&f=false I left out the part where the buttress thread was mentioned and there was the trapezoid thread. Old and known technology, and no one ever wondered why one rifle had tapered threads and another rifle had square threads. F. Guffey

May 30, 2013, 02:52 PM	#39
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	When I want to use a barrel stub as a "Power screw" I will keep that info in mind. Buttress threads are pretty much used in applications where you want to "Lock" but not "Lock up". Takedown gun barrels, cannon breeches, adjustable wrenches, ect. Technology? If you follow military gun production over the years it is easy to see that the screws and threads became finer and finer. The truth is early shops had a hard time with thread making. Early machine screws on guns are so course they look like wood screws. Last edited by Gunplummer; May 30, 2013 at 02:58 PM.

May 30, 2013, 03:04 PM	#40
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Gunplummer; I thought about cannon breeches too, but didn't mention them. You are correct, in that the threads are used if you want to make something easily removable. Military rifles are meant to be torn down, by armorers, and fixed, or new barrels re-fitted, and that may happen several times during their tenure with the military. I would say that was the original thought at the time, but later, everybody standardized on the V thread. A long time back, in the 1920's and before, there were a whole slew of threads being used that we never see today.

May 31, 2013, 10:32 AM	#41
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I used to think the gun companies did it to make you buy parts from them, but you are right, there was no standardization of threads in the early 1900's. Look at some of the early guns and it appears they went out of their way to avoid using a machine screw when ever they could.