Unique

learningcurve · August 23, 2012, 07:58 AM

Ok so I have been reading a lot of info on here and a few other forums and notice the one common thing on unique (not the ability too use it in a powder drop or not), yet the fact that a lot of people use 6.2-6.5g of powder under a 230 or higher LRN bullet. My only source of info I could find easily was the paper copy of the instructions in my lee die kit, for the setup I have that is.
It states a min of 5.2 and a max of 5.8 for unique, and thanks to ATT in my area "upgrading" the lines for what was suppose to be a week which has turned into a month, the best access to internet I have is work and they block anything to do with weapons.

I suppose my question is are my instructions wrong? I dont get any major leading do this setup which is as follows:

5.4g Unique
CCI LP primer
230G LRN
Mixed brass (Mostly Federal)

All from a SW MP .45 full size pistol. Thank you all for the information. I dont mind staying where I am at since it works well enough for the 30 yard max I can get right now at the range I have open. I also understand this is why one would like to have multiple sources, which I do but the other ones are for mainly plated or FMJ bullets, I am working on finding more lead info and usually use the powder manufacture website but since I have no available access at home right now I thought you nice people could help out on this.

Brian Pfleuger · August 23, 2012, 08:26 AM

Alliant lists 5.8gr Unique as max under 230gr LRN.

Edward429451 · August 23, 2012, 09:49 AM

When I first started reloading 45s in the early 80s I loaded a 225 gr Lead RN over 6.5 gr of Unique. My dad told me that this was a factory duplication load and a good one. I loaded it without thought because my dad had already been shooting that load for years with no problems.

Indeed, I have shot thousands of these rounds with no ill effects. I can't imagine me, mr starting load himself going that far over book max...Oh I see, I just looked up this load in Lymans #46 and in this book (which was the one out in those years) lists this load from 5.5 to 7.3 gr of Unique which explains that.

Lyman #46

452374 LRN (5")
Unique
5.5 for 695 fps (10,100 cup) to a max of 7.3 for 905 fps (16,500 cup)

This leads me to believe that perhaps Hercules (Alliant) has changed the formula somewhat since then. As soon as Robbie Leatham came on the scene and began winning and advertised his load of 5.3 (IIRC!) of WW-231 I tried 231 and have been happy ever since. I haven't loaded the 6.5 of Unique for many years, so because I used to load this load doesn't mean that it is still safe, especially if they have changed the formulation.

learningcurve · August 23, 2012, 09:59 AM

That's what I figured was people were either going on outdated info or had worked up well past the max load.

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zxcvbob · August 23, 2012, 10:30 AM

Alliant has recently gutted their lead bullet load data -- it's all Speer soft lead bullets now instead of hard cast bullets. You want to use their 2003 or 2004 load book if you shoot cast bullets. (just be careful using Blue Dot powder in magnum revolver cartridges, but that's not what you asked about)

http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalo...ntPowderSM.pdf

AlaskaMike · August 23, 2012, 11:07 AM

Keep in mind that OAL makes a relatively big difference in .45 ACP. I bet the Lyman #46 data uses an OAL near max.

Mike

Edward429451 · August 23, 2012, 11:51 AM

That is correct AlaskaMike, they list 1.272 OAL, though I was seating to 1.265.

learningcurve · August 23, 2012, 12:28 PM

How I handle it is that I find the oal that works in my Mags then start at the low end of the range for the powder and work up from there. Normally I am a few thousands shorter or right at the number listed in the manual I have. I also have not done a lot in the way of lead loads yet. I started with fmj so I didnt have to worry about leading or anything as a new guy.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

mikld · August 23, 2012, 12:43 PM

Different powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers use different test equipment, different test personel, and different test conditions/and parameters. This is why load data differs. I would first go with the bullet manufacturers data; if you use Hornady bullets use Hornady load data, etc. For lead bullets use Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for data. Aliant lists 3 loads for 230 gr. bullets, 5.8 gr Unique for a LRN, 6.0 for Gold Dot, and 6.5 for a TMJ, so Unique powder is "bullet specific" too.

dacaur · August 24, 2012, 11:41 PM

my Hornady manual (#8) shows 5.2-6.6gr for 230gr jacketed, and 5.3-6.6gr for lead.... OAL for LRN is 1.245", and 1.230 for FMJ-RN

Like has been said above, different manuals will have different loads.... If you trust the manual, go for it.

learningcurve · August 25, 2012, 07:54 AM

Thank you everyone I will be getting the Lyman cast manual soon.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

August 23, 2012, 07:58 AM	#1
learningcurve Member Join Date: May 18, 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 87	Unique Ok so I have been reading a lot of info on here and a few other forums and notice the one common thing on unique (not the ability too use it in a powder drop or not), yet the fact that a lot of people use 6.2-6.5g of powder under a 230 or higher LRN bullet. My only source of info I could find easily was the paper copy of the instructions in my lee die kit, for the setup I have that is. It states a min of 5.2 and a max of 5.8 for unique, and thanks to ATT in my area "upgrading" the lines for what was suppose to be a week which has turned into a month, the best access to internet I have is work and they block anything to do with weapons. I suppose my question is are my instructions wrong? I dont get any major leading do this setup which is as follows: 5.4g Unique CCI LP primer 230G LRN Mixed brass (Mostly Federal) All from a SW MP .45 full size pistol. Thank you all for the information. I dont mind staying where I am at since it works well enough for the 30 yard max I can get right now at the range I have open. I also understand this is why one would like to have multiple sources, which I do but the other ones are for mainly plated or FMJ bullets, I am working on finding more lead info and usually use the powder manufacture website but since I have no available access at home right now I thought you nice people could help out on this.

August 23, 2012, 10:30 AM	#5
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Alliant has recently gutted their lead bullet load data -- it's all Speer soft lead bullets now instead of hard cast bullets. You want to use their 2003 or 2004 load book if you shoot cast bullets. (just be careful using Blue Dot powder in magnum revolver cartridges, but that's not what you asked about) http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalo...ntPowderSM.pdf __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 23, 2012, 12:43 PM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Different powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers use different test equipment, different test personel, and different test conditions/and parameters. This is why load data differs. I would first go with the bullet manufacturers data; if you use Hornady bullets use Hornady load data, etc. For lead bullets use Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for data. Aliant lists 3 loads for 230 gr. bullets, 5.8 gr Unique for a LRN, 6.0 for Gold Dot, and 6.5 for a TMJ, so Unique powder is "bullet specific" too. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

August 23, 2012, 08:26 AM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Alliant lists 5.8gr Unique as max under 230gr LRN.

August 23, 2012, 09:49 AM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	When I first started reloading 45s in the early 80s I loaded a 225 gr Lead RN over 6.5 gr of Unique. My dad told me that this was a factory duplication load and a good one. I loaded it without thought because my dad had already been shooting that load for years with no problems. Indeed, I have shot thousands of these rounds with no ill effects. I can't imagine me, mr starting load himself going that far over book max...Oh I see, I just looked up this load in Lymans #46 and in this book (which was the one out in those years) lists this load from 5.5 to 7.3 gr of Unique which explains that. Lyman #46 452374 LRN (5") Unique 5.5 for 695 fps (10,100 cup) to a max of 7.3 for 905 fps (16,500 cup) This leads me to believe that perhaps Hercules (Alliant) has changed the formula somewhat since then. As soon as Robbie Leatham came on the scene and began winning and advertised his load of 5.3 (IIRC!) of WW-231 I tried 231 and have been happy ever since. I haven't loaded the 6.5 of Unique for many years, so because I used to load this load doesn't mean that it is still safe, especially if they have changed the formulation.

August 23, 2012, 09:59 AM	#4
learningcurve Member Join Date: May 18, 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 87	That's what I figured was people were either going on outdated info or had worked up well past the max load. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

August 23, 2012, 11:07 AM	#6
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Keep in mind that OAL makes a relatively big difference in .45 ACP. I bet the Lyman #46 data uses an OAL near max. Mike

August 23, 2012, 11:51 AM	#7
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	That is correct AlaskaMike, they list 1.272 OAL, though I was seating to 1.265.

August 23, 2012, 12:28 PM	#8
learningcurve Member Join Date: May 18, 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 87	How I handle it is that I find the oal that works in my Mags then start at the low end of the range for the powder and work up from there. Normally I am a few thousands shorter or right at the number listed in the manual I have. I also have not done a lot in the way of lead loads yet. I started with fmj so I didnt have to worry about leading or anything as a new guy. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

August 24, 2012, 11:41 PM	#10
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	my Hornady manual (#8) shows 5.2-6.6gr for 230gr jacketed, and 5.3-6.6gr for lead.... OAL for LRN is 1.245", and 1.230 for FMJ-RN Like has been said above, different manuals will have different loads.... If you trust the manual, go for it.

August 25, 2012, 07:54 AM	#11
learningcurve Member Join Date: May 18, 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 87	Thank you everyone I will be getting the Lyman cast manual soon. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2