Bullpup rifle history?

ar-180 · December 4, 2000, 06:38 PM

When did the semi-automatic bullpup first appear? Was it the English EM2(?) that was superceded by the FAL, or was it even earlier than that? This is something that is seeming to be the direction that future military designs will take, but when and where did the bullpup first appear? Thanks in advance for your help.

9mmepiphany · December 13, 2000, 02:49 PM

that was the first semi-auto bullpup, but i thought it was the EM1.

it was made to answer the need for a "assault rifle" firing a shorter than standard cartridge (30/06, 8x57mm, .303...)following the lead of the germans with their short 8mm. the russians took the german round and necked it down to .30 cal which they were already producing; this became the 7.62x39mm

the british chambered their bullpup for a .276 round (7mm) but they were overwhelmed by the NATO community to adopt the american 7.62x51mm. the bullpup could not be sucessfully upsized and the had to adopt the FN FAL design designated as the L1A1.

**4V50 Gary** · December 14, 2000, 06:23 PM

The first bullpup guns was a bolt action rifle developed by an Englishman back in 1901 (patent 14,622 of July 18, 1901). The "Thorneycroft" carbine was 7.5" shorter and 10% lighter than the standard rifle. When tested at Hythe, excessive recoil and awkward handling and ejected shells striking the user's fingers were the major complaints concerning this gun. (See Ian Skennerton's The Lee-Enfield Story, page 89). Springfield Armory may have developed one for calvary use (See Brophy's The Springfield 1903 Rifles page 85-86).

[Edited by 4V50 Gary on 12-14-2000 at 10:47 PM]

December 4, 2000, 06:38 PM	#1
ar-180 Member Join Date: December 4, 2000 Posts: 37	When did the semi-automatic bullpup first appear? Was it the English EM2(?) that was superceded by the FAL, or was it even earlier than that? This is something that is seeming to be the direction that future military designs will take, but when and where did the bullpup first appear? Thanks in advance for your help.

December 13, 2000, 02:49 PM	#2
9mmepiphany Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 1,092	that was the first semi-auto bullpup, but i thought it was the EM1. it was made to answer the need for a "assault rifle" firing a shorter than standard cartridge (30/06, 8x57mm, .303...)following the lead of the germans with their short 8mm. the russians took the german round and necked it down to .30 cal which they were already producing; this became the 7.62x39mm the british chambered their bullpup for a .276 round (7mm) but they were overwhelmed by the NATO community to adopt the american 7.62x51mm. the bullpup could not be sucessfully upsized and the had to adopt the FN FAL design designated as the L1A1.

December 14, 2000, 06:23 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,849	The first bullpup guns was a bolt action rifle developed by an Englishman back in 1901 (patent 14,622 of July 18, 1901). The "Thorneycroft" carbine was 7.5" shorter and 10% lighter than the standard rifle. When tested at Hythe, excessive recoil and awkward handling and ejected shells striking the user's fingers were the major complaints concerning this gun. (See Ian Skennerton's The Lee-Enfield Story, page 89). Springfield Armory may have developed one for calvary use (See Brophy's The Springfield 1903 Rifles page 85-86). [Edited by 4V50 Gary on 12-14-2000 at 10:47 PM]