Which Primer is best?

[cschwanz]

I've decided to just get on some back order lists and wait out a shipment for some of my reloading supplies. I've turned my attention to primers and was wondering what everyone used. Is there a better brand than others? Im going to be reloading for .45 acp once i get everything together. whats a good recommended primer for .45. im going to be reloading for target and hopefully some competition by the end of summer. I was lucky enough to get myhands on 1lb of Titegroup, so that is the first powder i will be using. lets hear the primer suggestions

(good sites for a backorder list will be helpful too)

thanks!

[QBall45]

Do not take my answer the wrong way. The best primers are the ones that you are able to find locally. Whatever brand that happens to be. Yes we all have a prefered primer choice. However today it is just a matter of finding primers period.

[drail]

Federal.

[Unclenick]

The .45 ACP is blessed with being one of those cartridges that can be made to work well with a wide range of components. I started out with CCI primers, but switched to Federal 150's when I got my Dillon Square Deal because they seated more easily in it. During the early 90's primer shortage I ran out of Federals but found a case of 5000 Winchester Large Pistol primers early on the first day of a local gun show. I got them, out of necessity, and, quite frankly, even in my most carefully fit up gun, I could not see any difference in my scores. They worked just fine and seated almost as easily.

So, I think you can use what you can find and won't be disappointed. Someone told me some of the Russian Wolf primers were showing up again (don't know where) and those are actually quite consistent. The Russians are big on target shooting, so they are conscious of what picky folks hand loaders can be.

[Cult .44]

I'm growing partial to Federals myself. I like the way they seat. But, these days, it's any port in a storm.

[Steviewonder1]

I use Federals. Winchester's were a bit harder and did not always go BANG in my Glock21. Everything went BANG in my Springfield 1911. So to not have two bags of AMMO, I use Federals.

[amamnn]

+1 Federal Match

[Sevens]

Federal primers have the reputation of having the "softest" cup. That gives you a primer that's theoretically less prone to a hammer or firing pin related misfire. At the other end, it's theoretically more likely to pop unintentionally when some ham-fisted reloader gets careless with his operations at the bench.

CCI has the opposite reputation... harder cup, more tolerant to accidental discharge while loading, but could give more instances of misfire if your firearm is prone to light strikes.

Winchester and Remington are somewhere in between and the other odd brands don't seem to have a reputation built either way, as far as I know.

I use CCI primers simply because when I was 17 and walked in to the gun store to buy my first box of small pistol, I asked for small pistol and they handed me CCI 500. That's when/why I use CCI primers.

I've used Winchester and I do have one noticeable complaint: the large pistol primers that I've used (WLP) have a brass colored finish rather than nickel and they simply don't slide as easily in my primer feed chute. They run my ammo perfectly fine, but they aren't as smooth at my bench, so they aren't my preference.

[kraigwy]

I dont think you can make a blanket statement that one primer is better then another. Some guns/loadings like Brand X, the next likes Brand Y.

I shoot differant primes in my 223 Bolt gun then I do in my ARs. I load differant primers in my light (52-55 grn) 223s then I do in my heavy (77-80 grn) 223s.

They shoot differant. I use differant powders that often require differant powders.

Not so critical with my pistols (probably because I'm not that good of a pistol shot) but it is critical for rifles.

Take my Ruger 204 loadings, not changing anything but brand of primers, I get less velocity, poor accuracy and more pressure with fed match primers then I do with CCI standard SR primers.

But, like mentioned, I'll take what primers I can find and make do.

[wncchester]

"Which Primer is best? "

Which tools are "best", Snap-On, Craftsman, Mac, etc.?

[James R. Burke]

Like they are all saying they are all pretty good. I started with CCI and stayed with them for everything. One thing I can say is after about eighteen years or reloading I never had a fail to fire with them. If I did I am sure I would have tryed a new one. But again from what I am hearing they all seem pretty good if you can find them.

[Unclenick]

Kraig,

Your last comment caught my eye. How do you get both higher pressure and lower velocity (assuming the powder charge is the same)? Or are you having to alter the powder charge? I know Charles Petty had an article on swapping out primers in the .223 a couple of years back which put the Federals at the bottom of the velocity range, but he had no pressure measuring instrumentation on the gun. I just wondered if you might be reading flattened primers as the pressure sign, in which case the softer cups might account for that indicator?

The only other thing I know about the Federal primers is that their priming mix is more sensitive, something Rocky Raab says is owning to their mix having a higher pH than those made by CCI. That is why the Lee Autoprime warning about Federal primers exists. They are afraid the ignition of one could set off the whole tray. But all the primer makers show concern about that. Even CCI says not to take more than 10 at a time out of the packaging (like that would fill our progressive primer tubes). Some days its hard to tell where reality leaves off and the lawyers step in?

[Russ5924]

I have always used Winchester. But right now I would take anything if could find them

[kraigwy]

Kraig,

Your last comment caught my eye. How do you get both higher pressure and lower velocity (assuming the powder charge is the same)?

Imagine this: We can take a fast burning powder that will give us a sharp pressure curve when first ignited yet drops off fast, before the bullet leaves the barrel. That could give you high pressure but lower velocities. Now take a slow burning powder, you get a slow or low pressure curve that keeps building up but stops when the bullet leaves the barrel. In this case you get low pressure but probably not the velicity you want. Then we go to a med burning powder, that build up a slow pressure curve, yet the powder is completely burned by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. Then you have mild safe pressure and max velocity.

Assuming we have one unchanging powder charge. Primers are differant, have differant burning rates. Brand A, may be hotter, causing the powder to burn at a higher rate, creating higher pressure, and in some cases less velocity (look at the first example).

An example of this is a NM M14. (Or M21 which is what I used). When I was in sniper school, during night firing we saw that the M21 (NM M14) using M118 White Box Match, had no muzzle flash that you could see at night.

When I was running sniper schools for the guard, using M21s, I tried to duplicate that act with 168 SMKs. i Found I could using 41.5 Grns of IMR 4895, LC Match Cases, and Fed LR Match Primers. If I switched primes (not changing anything else) we didnt get the muzzle flash at night, yet it equaled the velocity of the M118. However if I changed primers the velocity would either fall off or I would get muzzle flash.

In short, changing any components will change everything and you have to start over working up loads. Primers are no exception.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by kraigway

Imagine this: We can take a fast burning powder that will give us a sharp pressure curve when first ignited yet drops off fast, before the bullet leaves the barrel. That could give you high pressure but lower velocities. Now take a slow burning powder, you get a slow or low pressure curve that keeps building up but stops when the bullet leaves the barrel. . .

OK. I misunderstood. I thought you meant the same charge of the same powder with the same bullet had given you higher pressure and lower velocity. Changing powders to get a matching velocity from a different primer could, of course, easily give you higher pressure to get to that velocity.

Interesting to hear how much changing a primer changes muzzle flash? That's not an experiment I've tried. Presumably its just the difference in early ignition and pressure affecting how much unburned combustion product remains at the muzzle? I remember in night firing at Gunsite being very surprised by how much difference just a couple of inches of barrel could make in the fireball produced by a given load. I was also was impressed by how amazingly effective the Vortex flash suppressors were compared with the one on the M1A I took out to the school. I always wondered if the reason the military designs had not adopted those had to do with how easily the prongs might snag on something?

[kraigwy]

OK. I misunderstood. I thought you meant the same charge of the same powder with the same bullet had given you higher pressure and lower velocity. Changing powders to get a matching velocity from a different primer could, of course, easily give you higher pressure to get to that velocity.

No sir, you didnt misread me. I was talking, in the case of my 204, that I did use the same powder charge, but changed primers which changed the burning of the powder charge where I did get higher presure and lower velocity.

Try this: Develope a load. Then changing nothing else but the primer then run the new load through a crony. You'd be supprised.

[cschwanz]

thanks for all the replys, im just hoping some LP primers become available in the near future...

[Unclenick]

Kraig,

Have done that and seen the equivalent velocity change of what would be about 5% powder charge difference. Going from Federal 205M to Remington 7 1/2 primers in the .223 with 24 grains of Reloader 10X, for example, under the 50 grain Hornady V-max in a Winchester case. The higher velocity came from the Remington primer. However, the higher pressure also came from the Remington primer. The Federal primer averaged about 46,500 psi on my Pressure Trace instrument, while producing about 3140 fps on the chronograph. The Remington primer averaged about 54,000 psi and produced about 3290 fps. That was the part that caught my attention because you reported the reverse pressure velocity relationship.

[MasterReloader]

Federal

[That'll Do]

Right now, I use whatever I can find.

But before the shortage started, I used primarily CCI primers. If they weren't available, I'd use Winchester and/or Remington.

I load only for handguns, so I haven't noticed any difference in accuracy when switching between brands.

[James R. Burke]

I was pretty much like Sevens I started with the CCI and just stuck with them. I never had a fail to fire with them ever.