Need feedback on cheap SxS Shotguns

[XtremeRevolution]

Before the purists and competition shooters get flustered over the word "Stoeger," I want to explain what my purpose for this firearm will be and what my approach to firearms has been.

I started with a RIA XT22, which I had some issues with and had RIA replace it with a reliability tuned new gun. The fitment isn't fantastic, but it shoots reliably and it is a lot of fun. I don't mind the poor fitment; it's a plinking gun. I continued with an STI Spartan 9mm, 5". Had a barrel issue with that (hard chrome was chipped), sent it back, they replaced the barrel, loose barrel spring and shot horribly. Sent it back, they replaced and re-fitted a new barrel and bushing, tightened the slide, replaced the sights, and now it's absolutely fantastic and groups better than it ever did new.

I'm not opposed to "lesser" quality guns as long as they eventually work as intended. I'm also not a frequent shooter. Lately, I've been looking at the Stoeger side by side shotguns.

I know I could get a Remington 870 for about the same price, and my father owns one and I shoot it well, but I've always wanted a SxS shotgun. That being said, here's what I would use it for.

Occasionally shooting clay, MAYBE once every month and when I go on vacation to my father's ranch. It would not get a lot of use. I may consider using it to go duck hunting with some friends in the area, and may use it to go turkey hunting on my dad's ranch once a year.

I've thoroughly researched the Stoegers. I'm aware that I will need to do some touch up work to smooth the lug surfaces, the extractor, and the shell bores since they are machined a bit rough. I'm aware that the single trigger models mean trouble and have accepted that the double trigger models are my only option. I don't mind sending it in for warranty work if something goes wrong, and I won't be doing any competition shooting.

My first question is, aside from the less than stellar fit and finish, does anyone have any specific objections to these shotguns, given my purposes? Is there anything that the factory wasn't able to repair in the 10 year warranty timeline? I have read about weak primer strikes on a few examples.

My second question is, for my intended uses, what barrel length should I be looking for? What purpose do the coach shotguns serve compared to the longer 26"-30" barrels?

[twobit]

Get a used Stevens 311. Old but better quality.

[XtremeRevolution]

The trouble with used shotguns is availability and price. Those shotguns are asking well over $500 in decent condition on gunbroker, and no place around me has one available. The nice thing about new shotguns is you can get them whenever you want to and from a variety of places. The new ones go for $350.

[Dreaming100Straight]

ask the guy posting yesteray about how his forend and barrels fall off and the trigger does' t swith to the second barrel. is it being a "purist" to find that "quality" unacceptable?

[eastbank]

a new saying,cry when you buy, but laugh when it lasts. i have a 20ga browning bss sporter that was bought in 1977 for 350-400 dollars and it has been used every year since(48years) and has fired thousands of of 2-3/4 and 3" shells with out one hickup and i know that if i offered it for sale for 700-800 dollars it would not last a day. but as i said before buy whay you like and in joy yourself. eastbank. eastbank.

[jmr40]

I started out using my great grandfathers SxS made right around the late 1890's or early 1900's and have always liked the guns. It was really too old to be safe when I was in my teens, I just didn't know any better for a few years. The gun is retired and in my safe now.

My first attempt at a SxS was a Stevens 311 bought new in 1974. What a POS. I kept the gun 10 years before finally giving up on it in 1984. In those 10 years it literally spent more time at a gunsmiths shop than in my house. Multiple attempts to get it to work right failed.

I've owned a couple of other 311's picked up used over the years, none as bad as the 1st, but those were cheap budget guns in their day that were designed for light duty use. Most of the ones left are about used up.

I tried a Russian made Bakail. It wasn't too bad, but I just couldn't like it.

I came to the conclusion years ago that as much as I liked a SxS, having a dependable semi or pump for the same money was more important to me. Shotgunning isn't as important to me as rifles or handguns so I couldn't justify the expense of a really good SxS. If it were something that meant a lot to me I'd find a way to save the money and get a really good one. The same money spent on a pump or semi-auto will get you a world class gun instead of a 3rd class cheap SxS.

i have a 20ga browning bss sporter that was bought in 1977 for 350-400 dollars and it has been used every year

I've come close to buying a BSS a couple of times over the years and probably should have. If I found one in decent shape for $700 I would.

[XtremeRevolution]

Dreaming1000Straight: I noted the single trigger models are not an option and I'd be getting a double trigger model due to the far more simple. The double triggers depend on recoil and are sensitive to temperature and lubricant on those models. Getting a double trigger gun takes care of the first problem.

As for other issues, he has the O/U, and I've been looking at the SxS, which as far as I can tell appears to be a far better construction. The "falling apart" issue is exclusive to the O/U model. The only issue I've been able to find is that on some guns, one of the primer strikes starts getting lighter. I guess that's what the 10 year warranty is for.

If I get sick of sending it in for warranty repair work, I'd sell it and get something nice. So far, I haven't seen anything related to this specific gun that would cause me to run far away from it. I wouldn't be depending on it for home defense or anything like that.

[Blindstitch]

I second getting a used Stevens 311. Or Savage still makes some for a pretty decent price.

[Virginian]

If you get a Stoeger, get a plain Uplander with 2 triggers and extractors. They have a pretty solid reputation as dependable guns. Tons of them used in CAS. The single trigger and ejector guns have had lots of problems. Good luck.

[jaguarxk120]

One fault f the cheaper SxS's and O/U's is shooting to the same point of aim.
That is will the shot charge from each barrel hit the same spot on the pattern board at 40 yards. If you are shooting at 15 feet, who care's, but at clays or game if the gun is shooting way left, right, high, or low there are problems.

[XtremeRevolution]

Virginian-in-LA: I've actually been looking heavily at the Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme. With removable chokes, I should be able to "tune" it to my liking as far as shot spread goes. I've read it isn't ideal due to the jittery swing action for longer distance birds, but given that 90% of my shooting will be breaking clay and getting some giggles, It is attractive. Looks like it breaks down to a maximum length of 20", which is also attractive. I just don't know if the removable chokes (over IC and M fixed chokes), gloss finish, and recoil pad are worth the extra money over the standard coach gun.

The Uplander is a close second. Something about the shorter barrel appeals to me.

jaguarxk120: For barrel regulation, I have indeed read that this can be an issue, but for most people that review them, they are pretty close. I'd have to check if a very poorly regulated barrel would merit warranty work. One of the reasons I've read that contributes to the point of aim is the different chokes for each barrel. Not sure how true that is. Thanks for the feedback.

Seems that they are solid and dependable, which is one of my bigger requirements. I can live with a less than showroom fit and finish, and it seems that keeping the design simple with a side by side and double trigger would eliminate most of the problems people experience with them.

Here's my top contender so far:

http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/...idproduct=1867

[Dreaming100Straight]

keeping the design simple with a side by side and single trigger would eliminate most of the problems people experience with them.

Listen to the advice given, especially to get double triggers if you go with a Stoeger Coach Gun. Start with this to get an idea of the problems with their single triggers.

You might also read about the problems with the Stoeger Condor over unders and their barrels falling off. Worse, see the current discussion here.

Still, after reading about Stoegers, I bet you do as you want, ignore everyone's warnings, and get the "bargain". Noting personal, but that is what so many do.

By edit: I see from the post made during that first edit that you have been paying attention. Good for you. From what Virginian-In-LA says the single trigger coach gun is a different story.

[XtremeRevolution]

That was my mistake. I had meant to say double trigger. That's what I posted in the link at the end of my last post. I've read enough about problems with single triggers to know that I should stay away from them.

Besides, you can't fire off two shells at the same time with only one trigger. Not that you'd want to...

I did read about the condors, and decided on the side by side for that reason. Plus, I prefer the look of the side by side.

[Dreaming100Straight]

See the edit I made just above. There is something nostalgic and appealing about the looks of a coach gun. I am not so old as to have rode shotgun, except in my dreams as a kid playing cowboy and watching westerns on TV.

[Doyle]

I second getting a used Stevens 311. Or Savage still makes some for a pretty decent price.

Savage hasn't made a double-barreled gun in decades. The ones that now carry the Savage name are made in other countries under contract. The Model 512 is made in Turkey. For a while, they had the Savage Milano which I think was made in Italy. None of these are what I would count as "good" shotguns. They may be OK for a while but they have pretty high failure rates.

[XtremeRevolution]

Thanks for taking the time.

I do have a strong preference, but I'm not opposed to learning, and if a big issue comes up, I will avoid a product. When I first joined this forum to purchase my first handgun, I spent a 2-3 months researching options. I went in wanting a 1911 and I ended up buying a 1911, but the reasons I bought one had nothing to do with the reason I wanted to in the first place. I simply shot it better than I did any other gun and all of the controls felt perfect, and a CZ-75 SP-01 was nowhere to be found in early 2012. I'm also a sucker for wood grains, heavy steel, and good old fashioned designs.

I also own a 30-30 Winchester, so that nostalgic appeal is strong. Nothing like showing up to the range with a 30-30, a blued/walnut coach double barrel, and a 1911 government. Just don't let anyone know it's a 9mm...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

been 2 years or so ago now, Cabela's must have bought a large collection of SXS doubles... I bought 5 various guns all for less than $200.00 each 3 of the 5 were Husquevarnas... all had fluid steel barrels, no Damaskus... all had Greenier cross bolts... all had double triggers & exposed hammers, & rebounding firing pins ( though most were pretty lacquered up ) I turned 4 of them into CAS guns, & kept one that Cabelas had miss marked as a cheap Belgian gun that turned out to be a better grade, with engraving, cross bolt, & dolls head... that one I did not cut the barrels on... the other 4 were cut to 20", or 22"

what motivated me to buy these ??? I had one of the Chinese lever action pieces of junk, & traded that off, after I bought these doubles... even though those "old" shotguns were close to 100 years old, all give the solid feeling of quality...

[FITASC]

I would look at the Huglu before the Stoeger, they work and the CZ version has great customer service if it needs it.

[XtremeRevolution]

I looked at the CZ guns as well. Thing about them is that they're almost double the cost of the "supreme" Stoeger.

[FITASC]

Then maybe you should look at the cost of new Holland & Holland and then the CZ will look REAL cheap!....

Cheap SxS and O/Us COST more in the long run. You lose more value and spend more time waiting for it to come back from the repair shop..........but it's your money.

"The most expensive tool in your toolbox is the cheapest one you buy".

Go on shotgun sites and see what is being said about Stoegers made in Brazil.

[k357]

My brother gave me a nice Stevens 311 16 ga SxS for Christmas, it locks up nice & tight & shoots beautiful with #1 buck , #4, # 7.5 & # 8 shot. I think he told me he got it for $200 from an old friend of his.

[Blindstitch]

Nice 311. $200 sounds about right.

[turkeestalker]

These guys are right about an old Stevens 311, but bone up on used doubles before you buy one and learn what to look for because everything wears out. I'll admit that I own a Stoeger coach gun in 12 gauge, picked it up used for $200 from a local pawn shop. It is a hammerless double trigger, nothing fancy obviously from the name but it's tight and it shoots without any issues. I've had it out with my sons for kicks when we're shooting clays and it's a hoot. Modified and Improved I believe and as far as barrel regulation I don't even think my 15 year old has missed a clay with it, that would mean it's where it needs to be. I just don't advise pulling both triggers with 3 inch shells in it unless you want a bloody ring finger knuckle where the trigger guard kisses it. My only complaint is that silly auto safety feature when you break the action open to reload, it's annoying but I bet that could be disabled easily. I found a lace on leather shell holder with a split leather cheek pad and six shot capacity that actually makes it look pretty neat and handy as a garage/house gun.
If you want one buy it using the guidelines you've already stated here and don't give a second thought to what anyone else thinks about it. It may pan out just fine for you, or you may have what you can call a learning experience, after all that is how we learn.

[XtremeRevolution]

Went shooting yesterday and checked out their selection. They had a stoeger coach supreme in the exact configuration I want except it was a single trigger, so I wasn't going to buy it. Played around with it some. Exactly what I expected. I opened the action, disassembled it. Needs some polishing at the lugs as the action was stiff. Snapped it to my shoulder and looked down the sights. Did the same with a used itasca and a used cz they had there.

The stoeger was the only one that sighted perfectly the moment I brought it to my shoulder. I had to cock my neck harder for the other two, and the stocks were much thinner and felt like they were made for someone with smaller hands than mine. Very well balanced.

I'm going to get one in the next few months.

[FITASC]

I opened the action, disassembled it. Needs some polishing at the lugs as the action was stiff. Snapped it to my shoulder and looked down the sights.

That will smooth up with use - don't go taking a Dremel or similar to it - take just a tad TOO much and you've ruined the gun. Those measurements are done in .001 increments if not .0001.

Don't look at the sights, look at your target