Beginner needs gun selection help for pistol matches

[cschwanz]

Hey everybody, I'm wanting to get into shooting some competition pistol matches and need some advice. I am getting ready to purchase my next gun that will primarily be a carry/SD weapon, but would also like to be able to shoot the same gun for comps as i cannot afford a strictly "competition gun" yet.

I'm considering either a 1911, most likely a SA Mil Spec, possibly a Loaded or an XD .45 Compact. Which would make the better gun for comps?

I know the 1911 would be easier to upgrade later on, which i like, but the limited mag capacity worries me b/c i was talking to a guy that runs the uspsa in my area and he said i would need to be able to carry enough ammo to run a 32 round stage, maybe more if i missed. Thats like 5 mags with a 1911 and only 3 with the XD (assuming i buy more 13-round extension mags).

Assuming i leave either gun stock for now, will they both fit under the Production division?

I know the questions seem kinda dumb, but i'd like info from people that have been there before. Assuming my plans for this weekend get shot down(which they probably will with the weather we are expecting) i plan on going to a local uspsa match and seeing what it is all about.

Thanks in advance!

Corey

[glockopop]

The 1911 would be just fine for Single stack, in fact it'd be ideal. It is not Production legal, as single action triggers are not allowed. The only thing I would say is that if you buy a Mil Spec and upgrade it you'll be spending a helluva lot more than if you just buy a Loaded out of the gate. I wouldn't worry too much about the mag issue, quality 1911 mags can be found for as cheap as $15, and your gun will probably come with at least 2. In Single Stack, 8 round mags are the limit, so nobody's going to have an edge over you even if you have an unmodified Mil Spec.

As to the XD, if you shoot it well, it'd make a great Limited 10 gun. It's legal for Production, but far less than ideal. Nearly everyone in Production shoots 9mm, because they're all scored Minor anyway. That would put you at a significant disadvantage. Limited 10 is basically no compensators or optical sights and a 10 round mag limit. I shoot a Wilson KZ45 in Limited 10 and have a good 'ol time. The problem with regular Limited divison is that nearly everyone will be shooting tricked-out .40s that hold 18-21 rounds in a mag.

Here's a curveball I'll throw at you: What about revolver? I see in your sig line that you've got a Model 29, so you have fine taste in wheelguns. Why not a S&W 625 in .45ACP? That's what I'll be shooting this season, and probably for many more. I just got a 5" 625 fully customized by the #2 shooter in the nation, 100 moonclips, a holster, and a moonclip holder, an absolute top-of-the-game setup, for well under $1000.

Whatever you do, have fun! USPSA shooting had greatly improved my skills, and introduced me to some of the friendliest people I've ever known.

Check out http://uspsa.com too.

[cschwanz]

Thanks for the info. It looks like I won't be able to go watch the uspsa tomorrow so i'll have to catch another one next month.

As for the 629, I'm actually considering selling it in order to buy my next semi. Its still NIB and i really have no intention of shooting it much. my dad also has the same gun, except blued not stainless that will be mine eventually, in which case i probably won't want keep both anyway. The majority of people i have talked to said i will regret selling/trading the S&W so idk if i really want to do it or not...I'm just torn between wanting way too many things and not having the money to afford it all right now...

As for the XD handicapping me a little bit in Production, I'm not really worried about being super competitive at the moment, as it will be an excuse to get otu and shoot and become mroe proficient with my carry piece.

[9mm1033]

Which sport are you aiming to shoot, USPSA or IDPA? That might help make your decision on which auto to purchase. Because my 9mm XD is Production in USPSA, but not considered a SSP (stock service pistol) in IDPA. I'm placed in the ESP (enhanced service pistol) Division. I believe it's the only striker fired pistol maker in ESP. The Glock, Walther P99 and the new S&W M&P are considered SSP auto's.

[scottys1]

Just a suggestion, you could use the V10 you already have. The porting will put you in open class where you will be at a disadvantage against the racegun guys, but it will let you experience some matches firsthand at little cost.

As you already mentioned, don't worry about being competitive right away. Once you have shot a match or two, you will have a better idea on what you may or may not want to purchase in the future. Talk to the other competitors. They will be happy to show you their equipment and give advice. Gaining as much insight as you can will allow you to make the best balance between match class/competiveness and other uses such as carry/SD.

[cschwanz]

I'm actually not sure about which one i want to get into. Most likely uspsa, b/c that is what is closer to my area

[glockopop]

Production vs. L10 doesn't really matter. As a beginner, I liked L10 because there's virtually no competition in my area. I'd be relatively low on the overall stats, but at or near the top of L10. It's just a box you check on your scoresheet, it's not like it's going to make any difference in the way you shoot.

[cschwanz]

Production vs. L10 doesn't really matter. As a beginner, I liked L10 because there's virtually no competition in my area. I'd be relatively low on the overall stats, but at or near the top of L10. It's just a box you check on your scoresheet, it's not like it's going to make any difference in the way you shoot.

I was gonna ask how that worked, thanks. Ill be going to a little while before i shoot one so i can see what most of the people in my area shoot.

[glockopop]

This video's a good intro to how the divisions all break down, equipment-wise.

http://uspsa.org/USPSA_Videos/index.html

[UniversalFrost]

All I can say is Beretta 92FS or 96FS!

A few simple mods like a 'd' spring and you are still good in production class and they are very competitive.

At least you won't be shooting a glock

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Something that would work for IDPA or IPSC and work for carry and not be extremely expensive and not be the most expensive for ammo is the:

DaDAH - Glock 19.

I shoot that as well as a SW 1911 for matches but I carry the 19 quite a bit.

[Delta Dave]

Plastic, Glenn, always with the plastic...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, tell them to make a Scandium Glock. See you and I will just shoot aluminum.

My picture on the RSCS make me look like an armed Santa, since I still have my beard.

http://www.rivercityshooters.org/ind...s/Page1327.htm - Look for the match setup photos and the guy in the red cap and white beard, setting up with a 1911 on his hip. My 1911Sc SW Commander.

Just trying to help the guy out.

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I shoot primarily IDPA and my XD .45c is my gun of choice. I bought this one because I can put the short mag in and I have an easily concealable full frame gun for every day carry.

Throw in a 13 round mag and I have a full length grip...I don't care what class I'm shooting in I always use the long mags and just load them down.

But I will say if I were shooting USPSA seriously I would go ahead and get a mil-spec 1911 and start tuning it and customizing it as I could afford to. 5" barrel, heavy as I could get it, and there is a lot of "pimping out" you can do with those things. Then as you modify it you can change classes accordingly.

9mm1033 - you are correct, XD's are called ESP because they're essentially double action only, whereas other striker fired weapons are either DAO or fired from half cocked position (very simplified explanation).

[cschwanz]

I shoot primarily IDPA and my XD .45c is my gun of choice. I bought this one because I can put the short mag in and I have an easily concealable full frame gun for every day carry.

Throw in a 13 round mag and I have a full length grip...I don't care what class I'm shooting in I always use the long mags and just load them down.

This is the exact reason i am contemplating getting the XD .45c

But I will say if I were shooting USPSA seriously I would go ahead and get a mil-spec 1911 and start tuning it and customizing it as I could afford to. 5" barrel, heavy as I could get it, and there is a lot of "pimping out" you can do with those things. Then as you modify it you can change classes accordingly.

Again, this is why i want to get a full size 1911, but idk how seriously i will be competing right off the bat. I've got a lot going for me and idk if getting into comps hard core will be too much for my already hectic schedule

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

cschwanz:

Hectic Schedule + shooting matches = stress relief and a temporary escape from reality. Being a husband, father, full-time student, full-time software developer I can relate to a busy schedule...I owe it to myself and my family to hit our area IDPA match and my club action pistol match every month. All work and no play makes Sigma a boring boy. Not to mention hitting the range at least once a week (or two) for 30 minutes to an hour of practice. If you don't reload you'll find yourself looking at a Dillon or Hornady very soon after you find out how much you'll be shooting in that limited amount of time. Just more "you" time when you can get a chance to do it.

I would go with the XD .45c for now, shoot any USPSA division you "fit in" the best (there's a lot of work in selecting your division...a lot of pro's and con's to every decision) or IDPA (ESP or CDP). If you catch the bug you'll know very soon. If you decide to go with a racegun later you still have your XD that you've shot hundreds or thousands of rounds through for every day carry. Not a bad situation at all.

The cool thing about the XD's is that they shoot similar to a 1911 (SA trigger, grip safety...the new ones are coming with thumb safeties, and they point similarly). So your practice with the XD will make shooting the heavier 1911 even easier.

If you decide serious competition isn't for you after trying both USPSA and IDPA you have lost nothing. Just be sure that if one doesn't really tickle your fancy that you try them both. I'm not bashing either one but I think they appeal to different minded shooters. They're both fun if you approach them with the right mindset.

Also about mag capacity. Almost all of the divisions (except Open I think) in the USPSA have mag capacity restrictions (Production division is 10 I think, there's a Limited 8 for 1911's as well I believe). It's not uncommon to see those guys with 3-5 mags on their belts and a few in their back pocket too. IDPA classes are limited to 10 except CDP which is 8. I have four mags, 1 compact and 3 with extensions (all 13 rounders)...I've easily made it through any IDPA or USPSA stage I've ever shot.

So I would just expect to buy at least 2 extra mags to shoot with immediately (get another 2-4 if you intend to shoot a lot), for no other reason than to be able to observe between stages instead of reloading.

Find out your local club rules, some require some kind of training or safety lessons before your first match. Gear up and enjoy the process of becoming a better shooter.

[glockopop]

In USPSA, the only divisions with capacity limits are Production (10), Limited 10 (10), and Revolver (6). Limited and Open have limits on the length of your mags (140mm and 170mm respectively), but not on how many rounds they hold.

The only reason why L10 would be slightly better with an XD45 is that all Production shooters are scored Minor, meaning that your non-A hits would be worth one point less, whereas in L10, if you're shooting a Major caliber (.45), and get a non-A hit you'll get one point more than someone shooting Minor (9mm).

[cschwanz]

The only reason why L10 would be slightly better with an XD45 is that all Production shooters are scored Minor, meaning that your non-A hits would be worth one point less, whereas in L10, if you're shooting a Major caliber (.45), and get a non-A hit you'll get one point more than someone shooting Minor (9mm).

Good to know. Ill be checking out a couple matches in my area when i get a chance and see what i think. I also need to get a different gun... Hopefuly it'll be sooner rather than later

[glockopop]

Don't be afraid to ask if anyone has a rig you can borrow. I know I've got everything to shoot Revolver, L10, Single Stack, and Production. Most shooters dabble in many divisions, and many are happy to let you borrow something to try out to help you decide what you want to get for yourself.