Modern day pistol to win 1881 gunfight?

TXAZ · January 3, 2015, 06:59 PM

I'm watching "The Quick and the Dead" where Sharon Stone joins a dueling competition in an attempt to exact revenge on Gene Hackman for her father's death.

There is a wide variety of revolvers used in this circa 1881 gun fight. Some impressive state-of-the-art, well oiled precision machines of the time, others Civil War relics of questionable reliability.

The question to you is, what modern day pistol (semi or wheel) would provide THE BEST advantage in such a gunfight and why (assuming it could be transported back in time.)

OR, if you think the gun doesn't matter, why?

Deaf Smith · January 3, 2015, 07:19 PM

Glock 18... accurate as any, fairly powerful, lighter than most, can take a holo-sight, and can be set to fully auto.

What is there not to like?

Deaf

old bear · January 3, 2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:

can take a holo-sight, and can be set to fully auto.

With all due respect, none of the above would be of any use in the movie version of the "shoot out at nigh noon." These fights, if they ever happened, took place at bad breath distances. These were all point shooting at best. So the shooter who was quickest generally won the fight.

As for a modern D/A revolver or autoloader having an advantage, not to sure of that. Don't believe me, just watch an experienced S/A hand get of a few shots. Some of these guys are blazing fast.

Now for a protracted fight, I'll take a quality modern D/A revolver or autoloader every day.

Cheapshooter · January 3, 2015, 07:38 PM

OK DEAF, now back to reality, and pick one that's actually available!

My choice, which anyone can purchase, Glock 19.
Plenty of capacity
Accurate enough
Very reliable
9MM Luger is a capable round, and readily available.

mavracer · January 3, 2015, 07:53 PM

I'll take my old Delta Elite I started IDPA and shot bowling pins with and I want some good ammo to go with it maybe my 135gr Noslers @1550fps.

jimbob86 · January 3, 2015, 08:55 PM

Quote:

With all due respect, none of the above would be of any use in the movie version of the "shoot out at nigh noon." These fights, if they ever happened, took place at bad breath distances. These were all point shooting at best. So the shooter who was quickest generally won the fight.

In July of 1865, Wild Bill Hickock killed Dave Tutt in the town square of Springfield, MO, in a duel over a card game ..... at a distance of 75 yards. Tutt drew first, fired and missed. Hickock fired once, killing Tutt with a shot through the heart.

In 1876, Turkey Creek Jack Johnson challenged 2 men to a duel on the road next to the Deadwood, SD cemetary. The 2 men strapped on a pair of revolver apiece, and met Johnson there, commencing fire at a range of 50 yards. The each emptied their first gun before Johnson fired his first shot at a range of 40 yards, killing one man. The second man got off two or three more shots before Johnson fired again, killing him.

The "high noon showdown" was direct descendant of Colonial era dueling- some distance between combatants was customary.

Creek Henry · January 3, 2015, 09:14 PM

Creek Johnson must have been ice cold during that gunfight. Yo'd want him your side of a funfight... As did the Earps!

We learned this lesson playing laser tag 25 years ago. If you can't hit the target, throwing more lead or photons into the air rarely helps.

That said, modern sights and grips are a big help over classic ones. Sight aquisition on my1858 new model is fine but not as refined as any Glock, etc.

jr24 · January 3, 2015, 10:36 PM

Honestly, if I needed a gun to potentially reach out there (>25 yards) and still be fast and accurate at "bad breath" range... I'd probably grab my Ruger Vaquero... that gun just doesn't miss.

Deaf Smith · January 3, 2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

OK DEAF, now back to reality, and pick one that's actually available!

Cheapshooter,

Full auto guns would have been legal in the West back then. They didn't have gun control like today (except in many towns you really couldn't pack a gun unless the town marshal was your buddy.)

But if we are going to be serous then we would be dependent on the ammunition available back then.

And if so, I'd pick a S&W N frame 5 inch .45 Long Colt. Probably the Model 25. Why? Black powder would have gummed up the works of any semi-auto right quick.

But I still like the idea of the Glock 18.... Comanche raids did happen now and then.

Deaf

jimbob86 · January 3, 2015, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Creek Johnson must have been ice cold during that gunfight. Yo'd want him your side of a funfight... As did the Earps!

"....going into action with the greatest speed of which a man's muscles are capable of, but mentally unflustered by an urge to hurry or the need for complicated nervous or muscular actions which trick shooting involves." -Wyatt Earp

In other words, to win- Go as fast as possible, but don't hurry, and keep it simple.

I doubt even a Glock 18, or any other handgun would have helped Mr. Tutt or Mr. Johnson's opponents...... they were in a hurry, and could not miss fast enough ......

Water-Man · January 4, 2015, 01:16 AM

I believe I'd choose a high quality 1911, such as a Wilson Combat. They're what I shoot the most accurate with.

Model12Win · January 4, 2015, 03:11 AM

A good .357 wheelgun.

Plenty o' thump, you can reload far quicker and you've still got plenty o' shots methinks.

tallball · January 4, 2015, 05:40 AM

From what I have read, they generally just bushwhacked each other. It doesn't matter what handgun you are carrying when someone hides behind a tree and shoots you with a rifle.

CajunBass · January 4, 2015, 06:53 AM

Man. You watch REALLY BAD movies.

I'd want my Mattel Fanner 50.

It never missed. It never ran out of bullets. It never malfunctioned. And it turned into a machine gun when I wanted it to.

g.willikers · January 4, 2015, 09:57 AM

In the 1987 movie, "Time Stalkers", Klaus Kinski took a modern double action revolver back to the old west.
It might have been a Python.
A semi auto would have been of little use without the availability of magazines to replace lost and broken ones.

8MM Mauser · January 4, 2015, 10:16 AM

For one gun fight? My Glock 19 because I shoot it the best and am the most familiar with it. It is the only gun I practice drawing quickly. With 30 rounds immediately available I would have as much firepower as 5-6 other fighters.

walks with gun · January 4, 2015, 11:10 AM

and who would you put money on to win said gunfight, Robo cop or the Terminater.

Deaf Smith · January 4, 2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

and who would you put money on to win said gunfight, Robo cop or the Terminater.

John Wesley Harden.

Cause he had no compunction to killing. He would do so without hesitation.

The other two took orders from others had mission parameters.

Deaf

Bella · January 4, 2015, 11:39 AM

How many of you saw the movie Rough Riders?

There was scene where Bucky O'Neil was talking with Stephen Crane. It was when they were training the men to ready them for the fight.

O'Neil mentioned some of the more notorious killers of the time. He explained that they were not necessarily great shooters. They were drunken louts that had the ability to draw on their fellow man and pull the trigger. He said most men can't do that.

In other words, winning a gun fight involves a certain mental attitude.

std7mag · January 4, 2015, 12:36 PM

Sorry guys, would still be a Single action Colt. If your talking speed of pulling from holster, and firing a single accurate round.

For putting numerous rounds down range accurately.
Well your not Jerry Miculek...

Pezo · January 4, 2015, 01:09 PM

When your ammo is out. Let's see that auto loader handle the reloads with the available black powder of the those days! I think a gp100 6" with speedloaders would be suiting. Might blend in a little on appearance to the 1880's guns but yet hold an advantage.

Pond, James Pond · January 4, 2015, 01:27 PM

Ruger Redhawk in .45Colt.

What is the point of having a gun of tighter tolerances, refinement and accuracy if all you can shoot is what came in the mag/cylinder.

At least with the .45 you'd be able to get ammo for it....

mavracer · January 4, 2015, 01:39 PM

Quote:

When your ammo is out. Let's see that auto loader handle the reloads with the available black powder of the those days!

Um I have a time machine I can get more ammo.

But now I want to change my answer first I'm gonna go forward and get me a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range and take it back.

dahermit · January 4, 2015, 04:32 PM

I would choose a S&W 66 (or M19), for its light weight and ergonomic handle design. Autos are designed around a magazine, a revolver can be of a more natural shape without consideration as to a magazine. Also, no need to fumble with levers and/or safeties. Why do you think that there are no fast-draw contests that use autos?
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ski/SW66-4.jpg

I would not choose a single action because of the poor ability to deliver fast follow-up shots.

A model 66/19 is just as fast on the first shot as a single action. If you do not think so, research Bill Jordan.

I would carry it in steel-lined Jordan holster on a Sam Browne Belt as shown here:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps04fbe345.jpg

James K · January 4, 2015, 04:52 PM

If you can time travel, why not go forward, pick up a couple of calrotic pistols, and mow them all down?

Jim

January 3, 2015, 06:59 PM	#1
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Modern day pistol to win 1881 gunfight? I'm watching "The Quick and the Dead" where Sharon Stone joins a dueling competition in an attempt to exact revenge on Gene Hackman for her father's death. There is a wide variety of revolvers used in this circa 1881 gun fight. Some impressive state-of-the-art, well oiled precision machines of the time, others Civil War relics of questionable reliability. The question to you is, what modern day pistol (semi or wheel) would provide THE BEST advantage in such a gunfight and why (assuming it could be transported back in time.) OR, if you think the gun doesn't matter, why? __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 3, 2015, 07:19 PM	#2
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Glock 18... accurate as any, fairly powerful, lighter than most, can take a holo-sight, and can be set to fully auto. What is there not to like? Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

January 3, 2015, 07:38 PM	#4
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	OK DEAF, now back to reality, and pick one that's actually *available! My choice, which anyone* can purchase, Glock 19. Plenty of capacity Accurate enough Very reliable 9MM Luger is a capable round, and readily available. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 4, 2015, 06:53 AM	#14
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	Man. You watch REALLY BAD movies. I'd want my Mattel Fanner 50. It never missed. It never ran out of bullets. It never malfunctioned. And it turned into a machine gun when I wanted it to. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

January 4, 2015, 09:57 AM	#15
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	In the 1987 movie, "Time Stalkers", Klaus Kinski took a modern double action revolver back to the old west. It might have been a Python. A semi auto would have been of little use without the availability of magazines to replace lost and broken ones. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 3, 2015, 09:14 PM	#7
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	Creek Johnson must have been ice cold during that gunfight. Yo'd want him your side of a funfight... As did the Earps! We learned this lesson playing laser tag 25 years ago. If you can't hit the target, throwing more lead or photons into the air rarely helps. That said, modern sights and grips are a big help over classic ones. Sight aquisition on my1858 new model is fine but not as refined as any Glock, etc.

January 3, 2015, 10:36 PM	#8
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	Honestly, if I needed a gun to potentially reach out there (>25 yards) and still be fast and accurate at "bad breath" range... I'd probably grab my Ruger Vaquero... that gun just doesn't miss.

January 4, 2015, 01:16 AM	#11
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	I believe I'd choose a high quality 1911, such as a Wilson Combat. They're what I shoot the most accurate with.

January 4, 2015, 03:11 AM	#12
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	A good .357 wheelgun. Plenty o' thump, you can reload far quicker and you've still got plenty o' shots methinks.

January 4, 2015, 05:40 AM	#13
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	From what I have read, they generally just bushwhacked each other. It doesn't matter what handgun you are carrying when someone hides behind a tree and shoots you with a rifle.

January 4, 2015, 10:16 AM	#16
8MM Mauser Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 647	For one gun fight? My Glock 19 because I shoot it the best and am the most familiar with it. It is the only gun I practice drawing quickly. With 30 rounds immediately available I would have as much firepower as 5-6 other fighters.

January 4, 2015, 11:10 AM	#17
walks with gun Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2014 Location: northern Mn. Posts: 271	and who would you put money on to win said gunfight, Robo cop or the Terminater.

January 4, 2015, 11:39 AM	#19
Bella Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Posts: 341	How many of you saw the movie Rough Riders? There was scene where Bucky O'Neil was talking with Stephen Crane. It was when they were training the men to ready them for the fight. O'Neil mentioned some of the more notorious killers of the time. He explained that they were not necessarily great shooters. They were drunken louts that had the ability to draw on their fellow man and pull the trigger. He said most men can't do that. In other words, winning a gun fight involves a certain mental attitude.

January 4, 2015, 12:36 PM	#20
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Sorry guys, would still be a Single action Colt. If your talking speed of pulling from holster, and firing a single accurate round. For putting numerous rounds down range accurately. Well your not Jerry Miculek...

January 4, 2015, 01:09 PM	#21
Pezo Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Vernors and orange barrels. Posts: 661	When your ammo is out. Let's see that auto loader handle the reloads with the available black powder of the those days! I think a gp100 6" with speedloaders would be suiting. Might blend in a little on appearance to the 1880's guns but yet hold an advantage.

January 4, 2015, 01:27 PM	#22
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Ruger Redhawk in .45Colt. What is the point of having a gun of tighter tolerances, refinement and accuracy if all you can shoot is what came in the mag/cylinder. At least with the .45 you'd be able to get ammo for it.... __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

January 4, 2015, 04:32 PM	#24
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I would choose a S&W 66 (or M19), for its light weight and ergonomic handle design. Autos are designed around a magazine, a revolver can be of a more natural shape without consideration as to a magazine. Also, no need to fumble with levers and/or safeties. Why do you think that there are no fast-draw contests that use autos? http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ski/SW66-4.jpg I would not choose a single action because of the poor ability to deliver fast follow-up shots. A model 66/19 is just as fast on the first shot as a single action. If you do not think so, research Bill Jordan. I would carry it in steel-lined Jordan holster on a Sam Browne Belt as shown here: http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps04fbe345.jpg

January 4, 2015, 04:52 PM	#25
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If you can time travel, why not go forward, pick up a couple of calrotic pistols, and mow them all down? Jim