economical or ritual? what is the break point?

[porrpk]

Hey all

In your opinion, what is the break point (number of shells) fired per month to make reloading a worthwhile endeavour? (12ga, buying in bulk from walmart for about ~$24 for 100 shells) trap/game loads.

It almost seems to me that reloading is akin to a shooters ritual/obsession and not as much of an economic solution to the cost of buying shells. please, no flames, I claim much ignorance on the topic of reloading, but would be interested to know more before jumping in.

thanks

[impalacustom]

Honestly I do reloading because it is relaxing and enjoyable. It does help that I save money doing it but I don't shoot enough to justify all the equipment cost and everything else. Plus I reload a few wildcats that you can't buy. Another thing for reloading for me is it helps with my OCD as I know what the quality of my reloads are and how they perform.

[porrpk]

how much do you think you are saving?
how much does it cost you to buy supplies for and reload 100 shells? or how many shells can you manufacture for X amount of dollars?

I've seen the mec jr. (?) and it seems like a nice affordable option, do you have any reccomendations?

[darkgael]

For shotshells - there may not be much, if any, savings unless you are a high volume shooter.
For pistol and rifle shooting, the savings are very real and immediate, on the order of 50-75% less than factory. Example, I have a .416 Rigby that I like to play with. Factory ammo costs in the range of $4 to $10 a cartridge. I can reload equally good cartridges for less than $1.00 a piece.
A box of .45 ACP ammo, if I use my own cast bullets, costs me less than $2.50/50.
And so on.
Plus my ammo is tailored for my guns.
Pete

[Sixer]

I just got started about a month ago. I've probably spent around $500 so far getting set up. Financially speaking, I'm still in the hole. Likely will be for a while. So far I've cranked out about $200 worth of ammo.

I'm not expecting to save truck loads of money, but I have no doubt that I will have saved a decent amount within a year. Consider the savings over a period of 10 years and that $500 investment will have easily paid for itself, and then some. The sooner you start, the more $$ you will save on ammo.

PLUS, I'm going to the range alot more! I can actually shoot my M1 Carbine withou feeling like I just killed a unicorn! Kind of nice

[porrpk]

ignoring the cost of the machinery, how much did it cost you to pump out $200 of brass? was it significantly less than $200? I have no real grasp on what reloading materials cost...

[Dingoboyx]

Every second weekend I probably shoot off 200 rounds of .44 mag and 44-40. If I could buy new ammo (about $80 box of 50), that would mean it would cost me about $320 per fortnight (or $160 per week)

I reload, it cost me say, $400 to set up, it now costs me about $20 per fortnight ($10 per week) to enjoy my chosen sport.

In other words, I save about $150 PER WEEK on CAS alone.

If I could actually buy new ammo (which I cant) I couldnt afford to shoot at all.

I also shoot a Glock 34 and a Walther P22, and probably would shoot 300 rounds of .22 ($24 for 6 boxes) and 9x19 (Glock fodder) 200 rounds per fortnight ($80 for 4 boxes of 50) I have all the reloading gear for 9x19 for when I cant buy new (if it becomes unavailable), then I will reload them too.

If I didnt reload for CAS, I would have to choose between shooting SA's or shoot CAS if I could buy ammo (and not shoot as much as I can now)

Hand loading is all that keeps me in the game, so it is a necessity to me (lucky I enjoy it)

+1 Reloading.... saves me heaps

Muzza

[Dingoboyx]

Last time I bought a new box of win 44-40 it cost me $Au85.00 that is $Au1.70 per round

I get 500 projectiles for $50 = 10c each

Lee aniversary Press (turret,3 hole, non advancing) cost me $Au145, dies cost me $Au49, FCD cost $Au26, Lee auto prime $40, Mold (double cav) $Au49. I have dies and extra turrets for .44 mag, .44-40, .32 S&W, 9mm Lugar.
Brass (44-40/44mag) cost me last time I could get it $40 per 100 = .40c each but I own my brass and probably split 1 case every hundred.

I use Trail Boss, costs me $97 for 1.5 kg bottle (lasts about a year) I have 1 unopened bottle and 3/4 bottle (heaps)

Primers cost me $125 for 2,500 (Fiocci) or about $60 for 1000 (Winchester) I have a box of Fiocci's (2,500) and a brick and a half of Win. (1,500)

So, for me to reload a round now costs me maybe 15c give or take with a factory projectile (Purdy teflon one) If I mold my own, it costs me a trip to the plumbing shop or scrap man (or to the range and dig lead out of the banks or shot gun range) so the lead costs sweet FA

So Poverty pack rnd costs me about 6c a round+my time(casting projectiles)
Purdy projectile 15c a round
Factory round $1.70 a round

You do the math, then go buy your reloading stuff and start saving.... it's WELL worth it the long run (in a very short time) IMO
I feel like I AM saving truckloads of money and can really enjoy my shooting, and dont blink an eye if a noob or 5 want to have a shot with my gun, the ammo costs me a pittence, only because I reload my own, no other reason Good on you Sixer, you will be back in the black in no time and you will be so glad you are set up already.

Muzza

[wingman]

I can load a 50 round box of 45acp for approx. $8.50 (equipment paid for long ago) not sure what commercial 45 is selling for now but for sure its 65% more, so yeah it saves money however you end up shooting more, I enjoy reloading it is relaxing plus I can adjust loads to fit my guns,most firearms especially rifles will be more accurate with proper hand loads.

[Qtiphky]

I started loading shotgun shells back in high school, more than 20 years ago. I still have all of my equipment and dabble every now and then. My best friend shoots in a league and loads his own, he says it saves him about half of commercial ammo.

I have since gotten into pistol and rifle reloading and figure it saves me more than half of what factory ammo is now. Yes, you have initial investments, but it is the same with anything, ammortize it out over the next X number of year you will do it and it becomes a fairly meaningless number in the greater scheme of things. Just the initial set up, but it will last for 10-15-20+ years.

I like going down into my man cave to load. No wife or kids bother me, the dog lays down on the floor and the world slows down for a few hours. Gives me a chance to not think about all the chaos that is going on, just focus on these shells for the next period of time and recharge my batteries.

[James R. Burke]

I really dont do it to save money, but most of the time I do a little. I am always buying the best components I can to get the best reload, that is not to say you cant get good reloads at a cheaper price you can, that is just me. I do it for the quality, and hobby mostly. To me it is kind of like hunting. It is the sport. Most the time it would be cheaper just to buy the meat, but it is a great hobby to do. You will save money reloading there is no doubt about that. The start up cost may seem like alot because you are buying in more volume. Brass you will be able to use several times, and that is a big savings right there. Have fun, and keep it safe!

[Unclenick]

I think there is a general concensus that it is difficult to save on shotgun reloading without high volume. The primers are more expensive. The combination of shot and wad costs more than a metallic projectile. Brass cartridge cases, if properly cared for and, in the case of high powder rifle, annealed at the neck periodically, will last through many more reloads than a shotgun hull. That's why you see a lot of clay shooting clubs make collective purchases of 12 gauge supplies at wholesale prices. For one thing, they can often agree on what shot and wads and primers to get for everybody, where a group of metallic cartridge shooters might want 20 different bullets, 10 different powders and 5 different primers. Bulk purchases by metallic reloaders in a club happen, but it is less common that for shotgun. I don't know what the savings level is for shotgun if you have an FFL holder in the club who orders enough supplies for 100,000 shells? It lets you buy wholesale, certainly, but whether you could skip another tier at that volume or not, I don't know?

For metallic reloading the brass is a significant cost. Last time I looked at new .308 brass, it had inflated to around $0.40 apiece. With good neck annealing you can get 10 to 20 reloads. That brings it down to $0.03 per round amortized over the life of the case.

Bullets and powder and primer costs still add up. Casting your own bullets works well for many handgun shooters, but if you buy cast bullets, their up around $50-$70 a thousand for .45 ACP these days. Let's say $0.06. Primer is hard to say right now, but let's say that prices normalize again before too long and they are about $0.02. A .45 ACP's powder, shooting Bullseye, is maybe a penny and a quarter a shot for a typical load. New brass is about $0.15, so if you figure 15 reloads a case that's a penny a round. I've had up to 50 light target reloads a case, so this is pretty easily achieved.

So, cast bullet .45 ACP target rounds can be made for $0.10 to $0.12 or so if you buy bullets and less if you cast, as outlined in a previous post. If you go to a match rifle load, you are in a world of higher cost. $0.50 a round for .308 is doing well now. I hope that will ease a little over the next year. Before the hoarding crush we had a steep increase in metals prices. The recession has brought metals way down, but the hoarding took its place. I used to get .308 match loads done for under $0.30 before that all occurred. Now I am only getting a .223 match load for that.

Still, compared to $1.40 a round for Federal Gold Medal match .223 with the same 77 grain Sierra bullet, that is all pretty cheap. If you spend $500 on equipment and figure to amortize your equipment, even allowing for the interest opportunity cost of spending the money rather than saving it, you are ahead after loading fewer than 500 rounds of rifle and about 1500 rounds with pistol. That's enough for five and a half High Power matches (80 rounds + 10 sighters) and that's without practice inbetween. One season, give or take. For pistol it happens only slightly slower. Figure 180 rounds a match for Bullseye (not counting your .22's), saving $0.40 a round over commercial match ammo cost with jacketed 185 grain SWC bullets.

But all that's ignoring your time. If I am loading pistol using one of my progressive presses, I might average 6 seconds a round, including primer tube loading, case cleaning and whatnot. If my savings is $0.40 a round, I would have to pay myself 6.7 cents a second or $240 an hour to break even by reloading. Rifle loads take more time. The way I load match rifle ammo, I might only get 50 rounds an hour. If I save $1.10 a round over buying the Federal ammo and it takes me 1.2 minutes per round, that works out to paying myself just $55 an hour to break even on cost.

And all that's just cost. What is missing, enjoyment aside, is that my match loads are tailored to perform in my guns. No commercial maker can give me the same accuracy except a custom loading house following my recipes. I don't expect that to be cheaper than Federal.

Also, don't forget another important factor. You may save on cost per round, but a good many of us shoot more when the ammo is cheaper, so don't count on starting to find spare change in your pocket because you became a handloader.

[Dingoboyx]

+1 Uncle Nick

I dont have any problem with loose change wearing a hole in my pocket The gunshop gets it all & more

At least I am not spending it on factory ammo tho (other than 22 and 9x19 Glock fodder)

Muzza

[Tucker 2]

Some folks play golf. What's the break even point there? (I guess if you have three suckers in your four some, you might come out ahead)

[Whisper 300]

I know that the cost angle has been beat to death but like so many have said before there are a couple of factors in play.

One is that if you load for an oddball caliber the savings can be huge. Look up the cost of a .338 Lapua Magnum - I'll save you the time, it is $100/box of 20.
Those I reload for about $1.50 ea. assuming 5 reloads per case.

For 9 mm Unless I use my own cast bullets it is pretty much a wash in terms of pure cost.

In terms of accuracy, I usually get a bit better repeatability from my own loads.
I can build the round to what I need, not what Federal or Hornady makes.

The real reason I reload is the relaxation factor. This is one of the things I do to relax, unwind and generally enjoy doing. No price tag on that.

Costs can be a killer if you are a gadget junkie or load for many different calibers but then again I also have thousands of dollars tied up in golf clubs, scuba gear and poured tens of thousands into airplanes when I flew.

Life is short, don't go on the cheap all the time.

Gary

[Sixer]

I'm not exactly sure what it would cost to buy 500rds of .30 carbine ammo but I just finished reloading 500rds of it myself. So if I break it down...

- 1lb of powder (IMR-4227) = $16
- 500 primers (Rem. 6.5) = $14
- 500 brass cases = $60
- 500 FMJ Bullets (110gr Sierra) = $45

So about $135 for 500rds of reloaded ammo. IF I could find 500rds of new factory ammo, I think it would run close to $250. A total savings of $115 on the first go around. Not bad, but you also have to consider that I can re-use the brass. So next time I cook up 500rds my cost will only be around $75. That's a savings of $175 Multiply that a few times and it starts to get significant!


My math could be a bit fuzzy, but like I said earlier, the sooner you get started the more you will save (or shoot!)