9mm, 40 s&w, 45 acp shot to shot recovery test

[oldcabin]

Thanks for the video wildbill. Hickok45 did a recovery / speed video on the g26 vs g27 and another on 9,40,10 if I remember right. There seemed like a huge difference in those videos. I think he favors the 40, so the faster follow up on the 9 just was what it was. Always nice to see videos like this.

[hartcreek]

I have to disagree here...... what the video showed is that there is little difference in recovery time for you but you have the shooting experience, strength and obviously the body size that it makes no difference. Now if your camera person who sounded female were to do the same video the results may be difference. What it comes down to is that for each of us there is a maximum caliber that we can handle and below that recovery time is of little consequence.

[Evil Monkey]

I dare you.

Bring it or shut up.

Even if I did come down there, I don't think your dad would let you take his guns to the range with your school friends to have a chest puffing competition with some stranger.

I'd argue that what you describe above has more to do with poor technique than the effect of recoil...

There's two steps you must do after firing your first shot:

1. Point the pistol forward again towards the target.

2. Reacquire the sights on target

Reacquisition speed can vary from person to person and can be worked on for improvement. Recoil forces and grip shifting in hand with common defense calibers in most pistols won't matter a whole lot. Reacquisition takes more time than pointing the pistol forward after firing the first shot. Inherently, you can't outrun a pistols cyclic action unless you planned on the second round being a complete miss.

So no, I don't believe any of that crap about outrunning or nearly outrunning a normal defense pistols cyclic action and still having an accurate second shot. Outside of raceguns, it's BS.

[WildBill45]

Great job WildBill.

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully some one will get something they need from it.

[WildBill45]

Now if your camera person who sounded female were to do the same video the results may be difference.

No question about that, she is fairly new to guns and cameras! The demo was to show the guns can work the spectrum, but the shooters have to match up within their own skill sets but, don't blame the gun.

[TunnelRat]

but the shooters have to match up within their own skill sets but, don't blame the gun.

I'm not sure a shooter saying he/she can shoot one caliber or another faster is "blaming the gun". For some it's just their reality. I can shoot a 9mm faster than a 40SW. I don't blame the guns, but that is my reality.

[aphdmansoc]

I think WildBill established that with his skill set it really doesn't matter what he shot. On the other hand those with lesser skills it might matter.

[cougar gt-e]

There are MANY factors that impact recoil and recovery to point of aim after each shot. Heck, choice of powder can drastically change felt recoil from the same gun, same bullet weight and same muzzle velocity. You can make super soft shooting rounds that make major with miniscule quantities fast powders that have negligible recoil. Or change to a big amount of slow powder and at the same power level have lots of recoil.


But yes, in general if all calibers are shot at the same speed and you customize the loading for minimal recoil the lighter bullets have less recoil and faster recovery. But.... if you set the same POWER LEVEL and optimize each, the heavier caliber may well shoot softest. That's why competition shooters needing major power factor shoot 40 and not 9.

Confused?

[Worc]

Good effort WildBill45. I agree it would have been nice to have been done with the same platform. It would have been good to see the targets you were shooting at. Either a second camera or have the one camera pan right over to each target after the two shots. Follow up speed is one thing, it's another thing to be accurate with follow up shots. Not saying yours were not though.

One other thing that would have been nice in the clip is what load specs were used for each cartridge.

[Dragline45]

In a full size handgun, it's not as much of an issue. When you get into smaller compact carry guns, it becomes a whole new ball game.

With that said, less recoil equates to flatter shooting and quicker followup shots, I don't care how advanced your skill set is.

[WildBill45]

It would have been good to see the targets you were shooting at.

The target was good but not up to everyday standards as my mind was on control only using the x ring as an aiming point. If you have seen my Glock 41 vs my Glock 30S video I did ok on paper and it is seen... This was just a fun test to show newbies to not fear a gun they may like due to others opine that my be accurate or may be less than accurate. If you don't tell someone they can't do it, most of the time they will do it!!!

[Cheapshooter]

I always appreciate, and enjoy WildBill's videos. From accuracy with Hi-Points, and mouse guns to debunking the recovery myth I think his username should be RealBill45.

[TunnelRat]

I think WildBill established that with his skill set it really doesn't matter what he shot. On the other hand those with lesser skills it might matter.

I'm sorry I'm still of the opinion it's generally faster to shoot 9mm than 40SW while maintaining the same group sizes. Now the time difference for a skilled shooter might be miniscule, but I'd be amazed to see it not there at all.

While I also agree skill is one thing, Hartcreek brought up the notion of body size. When the FBI transitioned to 10mm they found smaller statured shooters and women were having difficulty with both the size of the gun and the recoil. A larger individual might not have that problem.

The target was good but not up to everyday standards as my mind was on control only using the x ring as an aiming point. If you have seen my Glock 41 vs my Glock 30S video I did ok on paper and it is seen...

I don't think Worc was questioning your skill, more wondering if you could keep the same group sizes at the same speed across those calibers.

With that said, less recoil equates to flatter shooting and quicker followup shots, I don't care how advanced your skill set is.

To me this is bingo. I don't think anyone here would question that they could shoot a 22LR pistol faster while maintaining the same group size as compared to a larger caliber. A skilled shooter of good strength can control any caliber, but how the rounds impact the target is important too.

[Guv]

Less power should equal more control.

[WildBill45]

Less power should equal more control

All day long, but the point was and for CCW folks who normally carry standard ammo specs and standard guns. I was not talking race guns, handloaded ammo to meet a need by a specific shooter.

[zincwarrior]

Girls, girls! You're both pretty!

i found 'em pretty meh myself. All those whiskers...

[Worc]

I don't think Worc was questioning your skill, more wondering if you could keep the same group sizes at the same speed across those calibers.

That would be correct Tunnel Rat. What good is speed if you miss your target by a mile.

I also thought the second time around the HK .40 was a little slower than both the 9mm and .45ACP.

[pgdion]

I think LockedBreach nailed it, the platform will have as much effect as the caliber would. But here's another interesting observation (based on opinion of course ), even the same platform could have issues. I have a Cougar in both 9mm and .40sw. I'd swear the Cougar shoots the .40 nicer than it does the 9mm. Nicest shooting .40 I've shot. So even in the same platform the results could be skewed just based on what the gun shoots best.

[WildBill45]

What good is speed if you miss your target by a mile

No worries, missing is not part of my portfolio, trust me!

I will shot nails through a board with all three aforementioned guns the next time...

[Dragline45]

Originally Posted by WildBill45

I will shot nails through a board with all three aforementioned guns the next time...

Carpentry just got a whole lot more fun.

[LockedBreech]

Originally Posted by pgdion

I'd swear the Cougar shoots the .40 nicer than it does the 9mm.

You know, this is absolutely true for some reason. My friend has the Stoeger Cougar (same gun, different roll mark) in 9mm, and I have the Beretta Cougar in .40 S&W. I have about 400 rounds through his Cougar and about 200 through my Cougar, and the .40 is softer shooting, or at the very least no harder shooting.

My PX4, which is the evolution of the Cougar design, was my first handgun, and may explain my affinity for .40 S&W. I have shot service-sized 9mm pistols that recoiled appreciably harder. Even my 92FS, which is noted for having soft recoil even for a 9mm, is barely softer than the PX4 in .40.

Another platform that does a remarkable job with the .40 is the Sig P229. Feels like a typical 9mm.

[DA/SA Fan]

Seems like there are two camps here. Those that are worried that fractions of a second and fractions of an inch are important, and those that think that in a SD situation those small differences are insignificant. There are differences in the speed and accuracy over caliber and platforms but I am of the opinion that unless you are a competition shooter the difference isn't worth a second thought. Good is good enough.

[TunnelRat]

There are differences in the speed and accuracy over caliber and platforms but I am of the opinion that unless you are a competition shooter the difference isn't worth a second thought. Good is good enough.

I'm of the opinion that this mentality is dead wrong. The rule of 3s by FBI statistics is the average shooting involves 3 shots in 3 seconds from 3 yards. Drawing from concealment and getting effective hits in 3 seconds isn't as easy as it sounds. For a trained shooter it's doable, for someone inexperienced it can be surprisingly hard. I'm of no illusion that a self defense encounter will be a "high stakes at noon" type shootout, but everything you can do to give yourself an advantage time and accuracy wise is worth it, IMO. We also know accuracy goes to heck in a fight, with estimates being 17-30% that of normal. We just had a shooting in the news where an off duty officer needed 17 shots to stop an assailant. Maybe the officer was a poor shot, maybe not. For me I'll take all the starting accuracy and speed I can get.

[WildBill45]

We are awaiting my fiancee's first 9mm, the Walther CCP, which is a game changer if it works as advertised. The recoil reduction would make it easier to control and recover from recoil and back on target ... in theory at least at this time...

So you would have a standard Walther and the CCP side by side, and the CCP may be easier all around ... again in theory at the moment.

[TunnelRat]

Definitely post a review or your impressions on the CCP. I don't think we've seen one reviewed on these forums yet. And good luck to your fiance with it!