Fighting vs. Competition

[threegun]

DA, You every been in an exchange of gunfire? Not that it matters but you wrote altercations and now I'm curious.

There is a lot of anecdote, a lot of specualtion, but very little real evidence outside of the fact that most gunfight survivors have had no competition or training in their background.

A great many if not a majority of civilian gunfight survivors have little or no competition or tactical training. Since we know that tactical training and competition isn't needed to win a gunfight a better statistic would be how many gunfight losers had no competitive/tactical expierience compared to those losers who had trained/competed.

I know three gunfight survivors that had range practice only and survived. One was shot during the exchange of fire yet still managed to kill her adversary. Another fired very low (accidentally) and ended the threat with a leg hit. The other fired one round throught his car into the chest of the car jacker ending the threat. Competition and or tactical training couldn't have changed these cases for the worst.

[Lurper]

And what has also been pointed out is that many highly successful gunfighters never competed a day in their life. Many of the biggest names in the field have said competition is detrimental, or at best a non-issue.

Like who?

And every one of the "competition good" camp also had a fair amount of training and experience outside of the competittive realm.

Which is what I mentioned earlier. Those likely to enter in competition have a higher level of interest than those who don't. Training is different than competittion. Training does not always involve pressure. How much pressure are you under during a normal practice session?

There is more than anecdotal evidence to support the benefits of competiton. There is scientific evidence as well. When tested, athlete's brains fired the same impulses when they visualized competing in their sport as they did when they actually competed. The benefits of visualization are well documented. For the purposes of this discussion, the application is that with proper training and conditioning (competition) you can train your mind to perform under pressure. The more you operate under pressure, the more capable you are to operate under pressure. Surely no one is going to claim that the pressure you "feel" is forced upon you. The pressure comes from within - from your conscious mind. That is fact, not anecdote. Competition conditions your mind to perform certain tasks independant of conscious thought or environment.

Granted, competition does not help with events that lead up to a shooting. No one claims it does. But what most claim is that once the shooting started, competition enabled them to keep a clear head and perform well under pressure. You can argue it all you want, but with all of the evidence that supports it both scientific and anecdotal, in my book that makes it a fact.

[Capt. Charlie]

I feel like a flea in the presence of giants here, but in my own humble opinion, gunfighting is a paradox. We train like hell for something we pray will never happen.

Undoubtedly, most of those who have survived a gunfight came away from it a little more "qualified", but I think it unwise to write off someone's qualifications solely because they haven't BTDT.

The problem with making this judgment is that it assumes that everybody will react the same. Actions and reactions will be as varied as people's personalities can be. Whether it's training, competition, or the real thing, the effectiveness will vary from individual to individual. I'm sure there are some that have survived combat, only to be less prepared today than some that have only training or competition under their belts, and, of course, vice versa.

Bottom line: I don't believe there is a concrete answer to this whole debate, but this thread has been outstanding, and exactly the kind of subject matter we'd like to see more of in Tactics & Training.

However, it's gotten just a little too personal, and I think it's time to close this one, while we're still more or less on the high road.

Feel free to address the issue again, but please do so without questioning each other's personal qualifications.

Closed.