Self defense vs dangerous animals?

Atroxus · December 16, 2009, 12:29 AM

As some know from my other posts here, I am planning to learn to hunt very soon. I am probably going to start on squirrels and/or rabbits. I was in a gun store yesterday and overheard someone talking about having a close encounter with a black bear while deer hunting. I got to thinking what happens if I cross paths with a bear or mountain lion while I am out hunting and have to kill it? I am curious if anyone here knows what the laws in washington state are in regards to killing a dangerous animal such as a mountain lion, bear or wolf if you think your life is in danger? Would I be correct to assume it would have to be reported it to dept of fish and wildlife? Would an animal killed in self defense go to the person that shot it, or would it be turned over to dept of fish and wildlife? I would think the shooter would not get to keep it to discourage people from faking self defense shootings, but thats just a guess on my part.

Pointer · December 16, 2009, 12:53 AM

Shoot now and ask questions back in town, slicker!

Here's some funny fiction for you... enjoy!

PHP Code:


			
I had this idea that I was going to rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it.



The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home.



I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope.



The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back.



They were not having any of it. After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them. I picked out a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw my rope.



The deer just stood there and stared at me.



I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold. The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation.



I took a step towards it. It took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope and then received an education. The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope.



That deer EXPLODED!



The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity.



A deer? No chance.



That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined. The only up side is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals.



A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope.



I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual.



Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in, so I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder -- a little trap I had set before hand...kind of like a squeeze chute. I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back.



Did you know that deer bite? They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist.



Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and then let go. A deer bites you and shakes its head --almost like a mad dog. They bite HARD and it hurts.



The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective. It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds.



I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it. While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose. That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day.



Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp. I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -- like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal. This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape.



This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy.



I screamed like a girl and tried to turn and run.



The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down.



Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave. I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head.



I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away. So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope to sort of even the odds.

andrew66 · December 16, 2009, 12:54 AM

shoot it, and dont tell anyone. or have cuts and scrapes to prove u were attacked. to many soft hearted ppl have made it hard to defend ourselves against these animals.

Atroxus · December 16, 2009, 01:58 AM

Oh I would definitely not hesitate to defend myself. Legal or not my life is worth more than any critter in the woods. I am just curious what the law has to say on the matter as to whether I might get in a legal pickle after, or if I could legally keep the animal. Oh and that deer story was pretty funny by the way.

Scorch · December 16, 2009, 02:14 AM

In WA state, if you kill a regulated animal in self-defense or in the act of depredation, you have to report it to WDFW. The carcass must be turned over to WDFW. Unregulated animals, like coyotes, foxes, raccoons or possums, it doesn't matter. You must have a hunting license in possession to be in the field with a firearm, so you can either leave or take the skin or carcass from unregulated animals.

Very few real self-defense animal shootings get investigated as crimes.

mtnman · December 16, 2009, 07:26 AM

In most cases the bear will nor attack you. IMO you should only use deadly force when you feel it is your only way out of the situation. I have had several encounters with bears so I am probably a little more at ease than some. There are also several people that have been around bears more than I have. Generally in case of open field or forest if the animal does not have its ears down or is not popping its teeth or bouncing up and ddown on its front feet you are going to be ok. Then there is always the instances where the bear thinks you are on the menu in that case it does none of the above generally and you are not ok. If you are truely concerned learn as much as you can about bears and cougars this will help. In most circumstances it is mandatory you report a self defence killing of any animal.

Buzzcook · December 16, 2009, 02:44 PM

I have hunted deer for many years as have the members of my family. Not one of us has come across a bear while doing so.

I did know one man that was attacked by a bear while bear hunting. Luckily he had a dog with him that was able to distract the bear long enough for it to be shot.

Brian Pfleuger · December 16, 2009, 02:48 PM

Black bear are hardly ever dangerous.

You won't "run across" a mountain lion, at least in close proximity. Your first clue that it's around will be when it lands on your back. That said, you're not likely to be attacked by a mountain lion either, they just slink away without your ever knowing that they're there.

Atroxus · December 16, 2009, 04:21 PM

Ya, from what I have been reading it seems the chances of this type of encounter are pretty slim. But still got some good information. IF something were to happen I at least have an idea what to do afterward though.

davlandrum · December 16, 2009, 05:07 PM

Shell out a couple of bucks for a bear tag and cougar tag and check the regs on seasons. This solves two issues:

1) if you kill one in self defense in season, you tag it and keep it
2) if you have the required tags with you, YOU WILL NEVER SEE ONE...

YMMV

grymster2007 · December 16, 2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew66

shoot it, and dont tell anyone

I wouldn't recommend the don't tell part unless one is clear on the legal implications.

December 16, 2009, 12:29 AM	#1
Atroxus Member Join Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Marysville, WA USA Posts: 88	Self defense vs dangerous animals? As some know from my other posts here, I am planning to learn to hunt very soon. I am probably going to start on squirrels and/or rabbits. I was in a gun store yesterday and overheard someone talking about having a close encounter with a black bear while deer hunting. I got to thinking what happens if I cross paths with a bear or mountain lion while I am out hunting and have to kill it? I am curious if anyone here knows what the laws in washington state are in regards to killing a dangerous animal such as a mountain lion, bear or wolf if you think your life is in danger? Would I be correct to assume it would have to be reported it to dept of fish and wildlife? Would an animal killed in self defense go to the person that shot it, or would it be turned over to dept of fish and wildlife? I would think the shooter would not get to keep it to discourage people from faking self defense shootings, but thats just a guess on my part.

December 16, 2009, 12:53 AM	#2
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	Defense?? Shoot now and ask questions back in town, slicker! Here's some funny fiction for you... enjoy! PHP Code: I had this idea that I was going to rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it. The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home. I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope. The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back. They were not having any of it. After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them. I picked out a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw my rope. The deer just stood there and stared at me. I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold. The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation. I took a step towards it. It took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope and then received an education. The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope. That deer EXPLODED! The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity. A deer? No chance. That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined. The only up side is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals. A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope. I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual. Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in, so I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder -- a little trap I had set before hand...kind of like a squeeze chute. I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back. Did you know that deer bite? They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist. Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and then let go. A deer bites you and shakes its head --almost like a mad dog. They bite HARD and it hurts. The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective. It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds. I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it. While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose. That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day. Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp. I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -- like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal. This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape. This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy. I screamed like a girl and tried to turn and run. The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down. Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave. I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head. I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away. So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope to sort of even the odds. __________________ . "Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston 30-06 FOREVER

December 16, 2009, 01:58 AM	#4
Atroxus Member Join Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Marysville, WA USA Posts: 88	Oh I would definitely not hesitate to defend myself. Legal or not my life is worth more than any critter in the woods. I am just curious what the law has to say on the matter as to whether I might get in a legal pickle after, or if I could legally keep the animal. Oh and that deer story was pretty funny by the way. Last edited by Atroxus; December 16, 2009 at 02:04 AM.

December 16, 2009, 02:14 AM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	In WA state, if you kill a regulated animal in self-defense or in the act of depredation, you have to report it to WDFW. The carcass must be turned over to WDFW. Unregulated animals, like coyotes, foxes, raccoons or possums, it doesn't matter. You must have a hunting license in possession to be in the field with a firearm, so you can either leave or take the skin or carcass from unregulated animals. Very few real self-defense animal shootings get investigated as crimes. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

December 16, 2009, 02:48 PM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Black bear are hardly ever dangerous. You won't "run across" a mountain lion, at least in close proximity. Your first clue that it's around will be when it lands on your back. That said, you're not likely to be attacked by a mountain lion either, they just slink away without your ever knowing that they're there. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 16, 2009, 12:54 AM	#3
andrew66 Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: canada Posts: 74	shoot it, and dont tell anyone. or have cuts and scrapes to prove u were attacked. to many soft hearted ppl have made it hard to defend ourselves against these animals.

December 16, 2009, 07:26 AM	#6
mtnman Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: WV Posts: 151	In most cases the bear will nor attack you. IMO you should only use deadly force when you feel it is your only way out of the situation. I have had several encounters with bears so I am probably a little more at ease than some. There are also several people that have been around bears more than I have. Generally in case of open field or forest if the animal does not have its ears down or is not popping its teeth or bouncing up and ddown on its front feet you are going to be ok. Then there is always the instances where the bear thinks you are on the menu in that case it does none of the above generally and you are not ok. If you are truely concerned learn as much as you can about bears and cougars this will help. In most circumstances it is mandatory you report a self defence killing of any animal.

December 16, 2009, 02:44 PM	#7
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	I have hunted deer for many years as have the members of my family. Not one of us has come across a bear while doing so. I did know one man that was attacked by a bear while bear hunting. Luckily he had a dog with him that was able to distract the bear long enough for it to be shot.

December 16, 2009, 04:21 PM	#9
Atroxus Member Join Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Marysville, WA USA Posts: 88	Ya, from what I have been reading it seems the chances of this type of encounter are pretty slim. But still got some good information. IF something were to happen I at least have an idea what to do afterward though.

December 16, 2009, 05:07 PM	#10
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Shell out a couple of bucks for a bear tag and cougar tag and check the regs on seasons. This solves two issues: 1) if you kill one in self defense in season, you tag it and keep it 2) if you have the required tags with you, YOU WILL NEVER SEE ONE... YMMV __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart