Differences in presses

[ronc0011]

I am in the process of researching reloading and something I have been seeing in presses is 4 station or 5 station arrangements. So far I haven’t found anything that actually explains what the differences is and what one allows you to do as opposed to the other.

Could someone please explain this to me?

Also I am thinking of jumping right in with a progressive press even though I am just starting simply because of the money and the time. I’m assuming I will begin with unusable reloads but intend to just keep at it until I get it down. I figure this will be more cost effective in the long run. Is there any particular reason “specifically” why I shouldn’t do this. I am loading for a Springfield Armory M1A and already know about the sensitivity regarding this round for this platform and so I don’t intend to run anything through it that I am not 100% sure of. After all the thing cost me $1500 don’t want to screw it up before I get a hundred rounds through it.

[ECLIPSE45ACP]

If you want speed, go with with the dillon 550.

[rwilson452]

the stations refers to the number of dies that can be installed in the pres at once. For instance with a 5 station press loading .308 for your M1A

Sta. 1 Size and decap. ( one die operation)
Sta. 2 Prime
Sta. 3 drop powder
Sta. 4 seat the bullet
sta. 5 Crimp the bullet

Normally with .308 ammo you don't need to crimp. However, with a semi auto I would suggest it. You might note military ammo has both the bullet and the primer crimped. I shoot an M1 and I crimp the bullet. I have never had a problem with the primer not being crimped and I have never heard of anyone that has. I have never seen any equipment for doing primer crimps. in a 4 sta press you would need to mount a different head/ die to do the crimp.

With a 4 station press you will need a way to double up some other operation.





Differences in presses
I am in the process of researching reloading and something I have been seeing in presses is 4 station or 5 station arrangements. So far I haven’t found anything that actually explains what the differences is and what one allows you to do as opposed to the other.

Could someone please explain this to me?

Also I am thinking of jumping right in with a progressive press even though I am just starting simply because of the money and the time. I’m assuming I will begin with unusable reloads but intend to just keep at it until I get it down. I figure this will be more cost effective in the long run. Is there any particular reason “specifically” why I shouldn’t do this. I am loading for a Springfield Armory M1A and already know about the sensitivity regarding this round for this platform and so I don’t intend to run anything through it that I am not 100% sure of. After all the thing cost me $1500 don’t want to screw it up before I get a hundred rounds through it.

[HiltonFarmer]

I bought a four hole turret from Lee. Works great and I don't have to worry about not doing a good job. Granted I'm new at this and still learning but from what I've read and experienced, there may not be a need for a progressive unless you plan on putting 30,000 rounds through your pistol in a year.

In my research, I found that you have no control over quality with a progressive. The only thing you can really do from a QC perspective is check primer heights. You have to pray you have powder in each cartridge. I don't see the need for a weekend shooter to have to load 400 rounds/hour but then again ... maybe an hour is all that these individuals have to get enough ammunition for the weekend.

I thought this was a hobby, not a job! I enjoy going slow. I do all my reloading in batches and maybe that will change in a year or so but for now ... 50 - 100/hr is just fine by me. After all, haste makes waste. Maybe one day a progressive will be in the cards but for right now, I'll stick with my Lee Turret.

HiltonFarmer

[ronc0011]

Time for me is a big issue. I don’t have time during the week and I also have a .45 with a 13 rnd magazine so I can go through 200 round in about an hour at the range. Also the M1A has a 20 rnd magazine so it can go through ammunition pretty fast also.

So does the 4 or 5 station thing apply to a progressive press or is that only applicable to turret presses?

[Shoney]

First, turret presses load one shell at a time by having a single shell holder and the turret rotates the dies over the shell. Progressive presses load a shell with every pull of the lever by having a shell plate (with many cases) that rotates under fixed dies.

I have both a 4 hole Dillon 550 progressive, and a 5 hole Hornady Lock-N-Load progressive. They can be set up to operate with either 2 die sets (bottleneck cartridges) or 3 die sets (most straight walled pistol cases). The 4 hole requires manual advance. The 5 hole has automatic advance and has advantages of the extra station to add a variety of options (powder sensors to prevent drops of low powder or double charge powder; and/or factory crimp die).

Examples 550 4 hole progressive setup
st1--deprime and size die
- - - priming is done on upstroke at st1
st2--powder measure (drops powder charge and bells the mouth of straight walled case)
st3--seating die where bullet is seated and with most dies as an option can crimp case as well
st4—crimp die (with lead or plated bullets, separate seat and crimp operations are recommended )

examples of newer 5 hole LNL progressive
st1 - deprime and size die
- - - priming is done on upstroke between st1 and st2
st2 - powder measure (drops powder charge and bells the mouth of straight walled case)
st3 – optional powder cop die (if not in use then skip to next)
st4 - seating die where bullet is seated and with most dies as an option can crimp case as well
st5 - crimp die (with lead or plated bullets, separate seat and crimp operations are recommended )

Hilton Farmer - - I started reloading in 1960, the quality of the ammunition in a progressive is as good as loading on single stage. If the primer is not seated deep enough, the shell pate will not rotate. Quality control of the powder charge, using extruded powder, is an issue on progressives. You can either load rifle cartridges on a single stage, measuring each powder charge, or you can remove the auto powder measure on the progressive and weight each charge, adding it manually to the case. Slow but effectively faster than single stage or turret. I do not load cartridges intended for bolt action accuracy on the progressive, but 223 and 308 cartridges for semi-auto rifles are very accurate from a progressive, using ball powders. Most of my progressive reloading is for pistol, using powders that are thrown with less than 0.1 grain variation, and theses are very accurate.

[RERICK]

Check out this video.It is from the Lee sight. Also what caliber are you going to reload?

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/Hel...s%20D650-1.wmv

[ronc0011]

.308 & .45 ACP

.308 probably with a 150 gr. bullet and the .45 with 230 gr. round nose.
The .308 I will be aiming to go with the recommended cartridge for the USGI M14

Eventually I expect I will also be loading .357 since I also have a S&W Model 66. I gather that the .357 offers a lot of possibilities for reloading. I just don’t shoot it as much as I do the .45

[cheygriz]

First, get a good reloading manual and read it. I prefer the Lyman for beginners, but they're all good. Then get a Dillon catalog.

[BigJakeJ1s]

Also I am thinking of jumping right in with a progressive press even though I am just starting simply because of the money and the time. I’m assuming I will begin with unusable reloads but intend to just keep at it until I get it down. I figure this will be more cost effective in the long run. Is there any particular reason “specifically” why I shouldn’t do this.

Depending on how you find out your rounds are unusable, it could be very expensive, in terms of wasted materials, damaged firearms, and medical expenses! While it is possible to learn on a progressive, it is not the easiest way to learn. The dillon 550 and the Hornady LNL AP can be used for one operation at a time, until you get the hang of each step. Then you can go progressive with more confidence, and likely more success. On the other hand, a single stage press is always useful for some operations, even when you have a progressive press, and can be used to learn on before using the progressive.

Andy

[Rimrod]

Extra stations can be used for various uses, such as a lock out die or to seat and crimp in two different stages. If you have a 5 station press and only use four stations that is not a problem, the extra stage simply does nothing. If you have a 4 stage press and need 5, that is a problem.

I have four presses on my benches, one Lee and three RCBS, all single stage. One of the RCBS presses does have a Piggyback II conversion on it that makes it a five stage progressive. Size and deprime, flare case mouth and prime, add powder charge, seat, and crimp. I wish I had more stages though, the more the better.

[RERICK]

I load pistol and rifle both.I started out with an RCBS Rockchucker and eventually went with a Redding T7 turret because I got tired of changing the dies all the time.It was too slow for me to load pistol ammo just for every day practice ammo so now for pistol I use a Loadmaster to crank out target stuff .But for precision stuff I use the the Redding press and weigh each charge exact.That works for me.Think about your future needs or wants and make your choice based on what you think you will be doing down the road.If your like the rest of us you will more than likely be loading for different calibers.The last thing I want is to have equipment sitting around collecting dust or having to try to unload it on Ebay and kicking myself for being too cheap or not thinking ahead.

[amamnn]

Not to be discouraging, but handloading is not really a pursuit accomplished or enjoyed by anyone not willing or able to invest sufficient time in the leraning and practice of the hobby. If your primary interest is in burning a lot of powder on weekends, you might be better served by purchasing bulk ammo from a place like cheaperthandirt.com.

[BigJakeJ1s]

As a follow up to what amamnn said, some folks reload to shoot, some shoot to reload. For the former, reloading is a necessary evil to reduce the cost of shooting so they can shoot more. For the latter, well, they just enjoy the challenge of mastering the making of their own ammunition.

It is not necessary to enjoy reloading to be good at it, but it helps. Progressive presses can help take some of the drudgery out of reloading, especially when large volumes of ammunition are needed, but they tend to compound the common mistakes that we've all experienced while learning to reload.

Hope this helps,

Andy

[RevoRick]

I started with a RockChucker Supreme and reloaded with this single press until I got the hand of the process and how to check for correct procedure at each stage. Recently I added a Piggyback 4 to the Rockchucker and it has sped up my production greatly. Even after the first use however, I realized I was still going to need a single stage press for test loads and loading accurate rifle rounds. I would suggest a single stage first as it makes understanding and trouble shooting the progressive much easier.

[Lurch37]

I just priced out a new Hornady Lock & Load Progressive. The grand total was $316 and change...plus tax of course, which puts the total at $338. Plus...for the rest of this year you can redeem a Hornady coupon and for the progressive you get 1,000 bullets FREE! So...looking at the coupon a person can get 1,000 150 gr sp .308 bullets. Thats at a retail cost of $270. So in essence you get the press for roughly $70. There are several other bullets to pick from and even if you buy the Lock and Load Classic, which is a single stage press kit, you get 500 free bullets.

[GASCHECK]

I shoot a lot of different guns, but only a box of 50/20 for each at each range session.
Four handguns, a couple of 22.s and maybe two centerfire rifles go to the range. A different combination each time . So don't need quantity as much as variety. I bought a Lee turret classic and a die head for each pistol caliber. But I just use it as a single stage. Easy to switch calibers. I use a Redding six station for seating the rifle rounds, and a Rockchucker for rifle case sizing, which is the only die I have to change.

Also, I usually break up the loading operation. Size 250. Next time prime, later powder and bullet. Do a part every day or so, and I don't get tired or bored.

I highly recommend the Lee Classic Turret for beginner or experienced loader.
And you can always go progressive if you want.
Gascheck

[ronc0011]

but handloading is not really a pursuit accomplished or enjoyed by anyone not willing or able to invest sufficient time in the leraning and practice of the hobby. If your primary interest is in burning a lot of powder on weekends, you might be better served by purchasing bulk ammo from a place like cheaperthandirt.com.

Well now that you bring it up it raises another question. At present I am paying about $16 and change for a box of 20 .308 at Walmart. That’s about .83 cents a cartridge. What is typical for a target load for a .308 and Walmart’s price on .45 ACP Winchester white box is $22.24 / 100. That comes out to about 23 cents a round after taxes. So again what is typical for a target load if I build it myself.


As to the burning a lot of ammo, yes I like to shoot a lot. Ideally I would like to acquire more ammunition than I shoot so that I can build something of a reserve. Bottom line is that I can’t peruse this goal unless I can afford the pursuit. So I find myself exploring all possible avenues. While this may not meet with the approval of the purest it’s not really my problem or my concern. I am simply looking for a viable solution to a dilemma.

[Tim R]

A couple of things. I have to agree with the idea of starting off with a single stage press. Besides there are some arguements a single stage press makes for more uniform rifle brass. I'm a High Power shooter so uniform rifle brass is a big deal to me, although I do know some people who use a Dillon for loading their match ammo and they do quite well. I also recommend buying equipment in the upper end of the scale. This doesn't always mean though if it costs a lot it's good. I own something from all the colors and then some. I load for 6 diff. pistol cartridges and 5 diff. rifle cartridges which isn't many compaiered to some of the others. When I started almost 30 years ago, it was for 30-06 only. and it grew from there.

Loading for the M-1A is a little different as these rifles are very hard on the brass compaired to a bolt gun. I would expect no more than 3 or 4 reloads out of the brass. Some will not agree with me on this but the gun plummer who built my rifle made this suggestion and I've stuck with it. I would recommend using the Forster NM dies as these set the shoulders back a little more than the regular 308 dies will. There is no need to crimp the bullet. I shoot Match Kings which don't have a crimp groove to start with and I've never had a bullet move around on me.

Powders: Most people use a stick powers for the gas guns as they really do work well. The Dillon powder throw dosen't like stick powders very well. I use IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 in my full bore gas guns. I know there is some ball powders out there which are suitable for High Power but so far the IMR's have worked well for me. I also weigh each powder charge.

Price: I think everyone would agree the best match ammo over all is Federal Gold Medal. These run about $22.00 plus tax depending for a box of 20 rds. I bring 100 rounds to a match so thats 5 boxes. Thats at least $110.00 in ammo. Reloading my own once fired Lake City brass, I can load the same ammo for about $44.00 without using bulk prices. I think my reloads shoot better anyways and at $66.00 in savings for every match it didn't take long to recoop the investment.

Because I use a single stage press at times I do have to do a little planning before shooting a match. I'm shooting a couple of matches on the 10th and 11th of this month. One will be with a NM 308 M-1, the other with my NM AR.
I got two different types of brass to sort, weigh and prep. I size, trim and clean a 2nd time to get the case lube off. I uniform the primer pocket and
deburr/chamfer the necks. The brass is now ready to prime.

For pistol ammo, I keep brass in different stages of repair. I have brass already sized, belled and primed ready to load. I have brass which is cleaned and sized and I have lots which is dirty ready for tumbling. To load, I set up the throw to desired weight and throw powder in each case checking the throw on the scale every 10th powder throw. I can load 150 rounds an hour with out braking a sweat including setting up the throw.

Ok, now that you are going (OH MY!) it's not as hard as it sounds. The other thing I have to say is since you have a M-1A, please find a High Power match and learn how to shoot it. Be a rifleman not a bench warmer. High Power shooters a great bunch of guys, and are always willing to help a new guy and beyond. Don't have all the required equipment, no worry somebody will loan you what ever you need. You will recieve instructions on what to do and how to do it. You will hear it in a friendly voice, not one getting yelled at. You will feel like you shot like crap but guess what, we all started there with the only difference between you and the match winner being trigger time and fewer mistakes during the match. Besides that, ammo and match fees is still less than a round of golf.