Looking for info on buying bulk powder:

Frank_CPL_USMC · July 11, 2011, 09:27 AM

I was wondering if anyone had any info on buying bulk directly from a manufacturer of powder such as Hodgdon. I am in the process of getting my type 6 FFL and heard that manufacturers will give a good discount to FFL holders on their powder. does anyone have any further info on this?

also any info on pricing, hazmat fees etc would be very welcomed!

praetorian97 · July 11, 2011, 09:44 AM

I dont know for sure but I'd imagine your price would be based on your order.

For example Cabelas and Sportsmans sell powder way cheaper than local reload shops. Common sense tells us those two large companies buy more in bulk than the mom and pop shops.

oneounceload · July 11, 2011, 10:30 AM

You'll need to buy in bulk - that doesn't mean a couple of 8# jugs, that means BULK which then means NFPA regs, powder magazine, insurance, fire suppression, etc.

How much are you looking to buy at once?

Frank_CPL_USMC · July 11, 2011, 11:03 AM

somwhere in the range of 50 to 75 pounds. i knew about fire suppression is required and i will have it already in the shop im leasing. insurance without a doubt. shopping around getting quotes on that as well.

PawPaw · July 11, 2011, 11:15 AM

You might want to go look at the Alliant Powder website and I'll provide a LINKY to the relevant page. If you're buying bulk powder there will be some fairly stringent storage requirements. They're not necessarily limiting, but they are concerned with fire codes and licensing and that sort of thing. Basically, if you store more than 20 lbs then you've got to provide a container for powder storage.

I'm sure you could order a boxcar load of Unique and Alliant would give you a great price. I'm also fairly certain that the Fire Marshal would want to see your storage container.

Frank_CPL_USMC · July 11, 2011, 12:28 PM

Anyone have any idea what kind of storage container is acceptable for smokeless powder?

PawPaw · July 11, 2011, 12:35 PM

Frank - did you go read the link I furnished? It's very specific and tells you what you need. Those blue letter, if you click on them, they'll tell you what you need to know.

zippy13 · July 11, 2011, 12:38 PM

IINM, there may be a loop hole in the storage requirements. Typically NFPA standards apply to storage facilities, while DOT standards apply while the powder is being transported. Depending on local interpretation, as long as you leave the powder in a licensed/complying trailer, it's considered still in transit and the NFPA storage requirements don't apply.

Frank_CPL_USMC · July 11, 2011, 01:12 PM

i just saw your link and thank you very much, that is extremely helpful. thanks again!

BigJimP · July 11, 2011, 01:57 PM

My gun club tried to go to Hodgdon direct ....vs their dealers...and they required way more than we wanted to order at one time ...( as I recall it was well over 5,000 lbs per order) ....

There is no way - this is going to work out for you / since you want under 100 lbs ... / and they won't risk upsetting one of their local wholesalers for you ...at that volume.

The powder business is booming ...and they're still having problems keeping all of their wholesalers in stock with inventory now ...

Powder isn't the big factor in keeping your cost of reloading down anyway ...the cost is in the bullet or the shot...( bullets make up 8 cents of an 11 cent round for 9mm / or 15 cents of 19 cents in a .45 acp round / 8 - 9 cents in a 15 cent 12ga shotshell..../ buy powder in lots to make it feasable to store it easily ....but shot or bullets in bulk ( tons of shot / or several cases of bullets at a time...) ...

oneounceload · July 12, 2011, 07:47 AM

50-75 pounds is not large enough for a direct ship from a maker - you might find a distributor that might give you a break, but hazmat will kick in, and might entail several on multiple packages

Same things holds true for primers - I asked some folks at a gun show who made factory reloads, factory new and sold components what they ordered to get good pricing on things - they had a constant order for 100,000 primers per WEEK coming in, and they weren't the biggest of operations

Good luck!

medalguy · July 13, 2011, 12:20 AM

Keep in mind that if you do indeed order a large quantity of powder you will want to check into shipping by truck. I ordered several hundred pounds of pulldown powder several years ago and had it shipped by motor freight. The rates are much cheaper than UPS/Fedex and there's no hazmat charges.

625cnd · July 16, 2011, 07:50 PM

Here is the deal, it really does not matter. Commerical truck shipments are limited to a #100 at a time. So unless, you are on truck route that delivers powder you will be limited. You might want to check with Grafs, as they stock larger kegs of powder FFL O6 pricing on primers at one time. Check with the parent of AA and Ramshot, Western Powders.

Many of the larger wholesaleer actually run their own trucks, and thus might be able to deliver larger quantities then say a commerical truck. You need to conisder reading up on what the State and Local Ord are on the storage of Powder and Primers. Check the back of free Powder Guides, as most have NFPA guide lines.

http://www.imrpowder.com/safeinfo.html

Shootest · July 17, 2011, 07:41 AM

As soon as you get your FFL you will be able to buy powder, primers, and so no, at true wholesale prices, from distributors. Check this out. http://firearmsites.com/Gun-Distributors.html
They ONLY sell to gun shops, reloading companies, and sporting goods stores. You will get better prices than any non FFL holder can get anywhere.

brickeyee · July 17, 2011, 10:52 AM

When did Hodgdon start manufacturing smokeless powder?

Shootest · July 17, 2011, 01:48 PM

Hodgdon went into business some time in the 1940s. I don’t think they actually manufactured powder (but sold surplus or had it made for them) till recently when they bought IMR.

zippy13 · July 17, 2011, 02:51 PM

Check the back of free Powder Guides, as most have NFPA guide lines.

This is true; however, these guidelines are typically grossly out of date. They are based on the standards from 25-years ago. There are differences between NFPA-1985 and NPFA-2010.

mdemetz · July 18, 2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Keep in mind that if you do indeed order a large quantity of powder you will want to check into shipping by truck. I ordered several hundred pounds of pulldown powder several years ago and had it shipped by motor freight. The rates are much cheaper than UPS/Fedex and there's no hazmat charges.

A small local gunsmith/dealer does this. Orders a skid full of stuff(which gets him a shipping break from the distributer) and has it shipped truck freight, which means no hazmat.
His distributer requires a minimum of 2 8lb containers for powder.

Loader9 · July 18, 2011, 09:53 PM

Frank, if you intend to commercially load ammo, cost is a major factor. You'll want to be loading military powder that you can buy in bulk-it's far cheaper. I'd suggest the following:
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html
http://hi-techammo.com/
http://www.wideners.com/
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx

I get quite a lot from Hi tech and they have been more than reasonable with getting me product even when they don't have it. They can furnish you with loading data for the powders you won't recognize. Barlett(gibrass) is another dependable supplier and will furnish data at your request. Obviously, the more you buy, the better the deal. Do not accept the internet pricing if buying in bulk. Call for pricing. And yes, pricing is always subject to customer attitude.

LDBennett · July 19, 2011, 07:55 AM

Frank_CPL_USMC:

Some powder distributors offer discounts to FFL holders. One example is Black Hills Shooter Supplies.

http://www.bhshooters.com/

They sell Winchester, Remington, and others bullets and brass. They sell Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, Accurate Arms powders but for a full list of their products you need to visit their web site and maybe even call them. They DO NOT sell retail but only to FFL holders. Their prices are competitive and for powder they include the Hazardous Materials charge in the pricing (no extra fee per shipment). They will sell powder in quantities as small as 10 one pounds can or one 8 pound jug. They also have better pricing for truck shipments (over 100 pounds of product).

I am in no way connected to BHSS and only offer this advice based on my personal experience with them.

Again, for more specific information contact them. If you call you actually get to talk to a real person.

LDBennett

brickeyee · July 19, 2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Hodgdon went into business some time in the 1940s. I don’t think they actually manufactured powder (but sold surplus or had it made for them) till recently when they bought IMR.

I would doubt Hodgdon has a whole lot to do with the operation of IMR outside of providing distribution.

Hodgdon has never actually made any smokeless powder.

They started after WW2 selling surplus powder, then had additional lots made for them to match the surplus.

The actual manufacture of smokeless starting from cellulose is NOT a low risk enterprise.
Plant explosions are not all that uncommon.

WESHOOT2 · July 20, 2011, 06:42 AM

I mostly used Grafs and Black Hills Shooters Supply for my bulk powder/primer/bullet orders.
Recommend both.

Anyone know how much a pallet of Rainier 180g TCJ-FP bullets weigh?
I do.
Anyone know how much WAP I still have?
I do; lots....but not enough for making furniture anymore....

July 11, 2011, 11:03 AM	#4
Frank_CPL_USMC Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain in Commiefornia. Posts: 26	somwhere in the range of 50 to 75 pounds. i knew about fire suppression is required and i will have it already in the shop im leasing. insurance without a doubt. shopping around getting quotes on that as well. __________________ "The 2nd Amendment is more important than the first, because if you have a gun you can say whatever you want." -I don't remember where i heard it.

July 11, 2011, 11:15 AM	#5
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	You might want to go look at the Alliant Powder website and I'll provide a LINKY to the relevant page. If you're buying bulk powder there will be some fairly stringent storage requirements. They're not necessarily limiting, but they are concerned with fire codes and licensing and that sort of thing. Basically, if you store more than 20 lbs then you've got to provide a container for powder storage. I'm sure you could order a boxcar load of Unique and Alliant would give you a great price. I'm also fairly certain that the Fire Marshal would want to see your storage container. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

July 11, 2011, 12:28 PM	#6
Frank_CPL_USMC Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain in Commiefornia. Posts: 26	Anyone have any idea what kind of storage container is acceptable for smokeless powder? __________________ "The 2nd Amendment is more important than the first, because if you have a gun you can say whatever you want." -I don't remember where i heard it.

July 11, 2011, 12:35 PM	#7
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	Frank - did you go read the link I furnished? It's very specific and tells you what you need. Those blue letter, if you click on them, they'll tell you what you need to know. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

July 11, 2011, 01:12 PM	#9
Frank_CPL_USMC Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain in Commiefornia. Posts: 26	i just saw your link and thank you very much, that is extremely helpful. thanks again! __________________ "The 2nd Amendment is more important than the first, because if you have a gun you can say whatever you want." -I don't remember where i heard it.

July 11, 2011, 09:27 AM	#1
Frank_CPL_USMC Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Behind the Iron Curtain in Commiefornia. Posts: 26	Looking for info on buying bulk powder: I was wondering if anyone had any info on buying bulk directly from a manufacturer of powder such as Hodgdon. I am in the process of getting my type 6 FFL and heard that manufacturers will give a good discount to FFL holders on their powder. does anyone have any further info on this? also any info on pricing, hazmat fees etc would be very welcomed! __________________ "The 2nd Amendment is more important than the first, because if you have a gun you can say whatever you want." -I don't remember where i heard it.

July 11, 2011, 09:44 AM	#2
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	I dont know for sure but I'd imagine your price would be based on your order. For example Cabelas and Sportsmans sell powder way cheaper than local reload shops. Common sense tells us those two large companies buy more in bulk than the mom and pop shops.

July 11, 2011, 10:30 AM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You'll need to buy in bulk - that doesn't mean a couple of 8# jugs, that means BULK which then means NFPA regs, powder magazine, insurance, fire suppression, etc. How much are you looking to buy at once?

July 11, 2011, 12:38 PM	#8
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	IINM, there may be a loop hole in the storage requirements. Typically NFPA standards apply to storage facilities, while DOT standards apply while the powder is being transported. Depending on local interpretation, as long as you leave the powder in a licensed/complying trailer, it's considered still in transit and the NFPA storage requirements don't apply.

July 11, 2011, 01:57 PM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	My gun club tried to go to Hodgdon direct ....vs their dealers...and they required way more than we wanted to order at one time ...( as I recall it was well over 5,000 lbs per order) .... There is no way - this is going to work out for you / since you want under 100 lbs ... / and they won't risk upsetting one of their local wholesalers for you ...at that volume. The powder business is booming ...and they're still having problems keeping all of their wholesalers in stock with inventory now ... Powder isn't the big factor in keeping your cost of reloading down anyway ...the cost is in the bullet or the shot...( bullets make up 8 cents of an 11 cent round for 9mm / or 15 cents of 19 cents in a .45 acp round / 8 - 9 cents in a 15 cent 12ga shotshell..../ buy powder in lots to make it feasable to store it easily ....but shot or bullets in bulk ( tons of shot / or several cases of bullets at a time...) ...

July 12, 2011, 07:47 AM	#11
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	50-75 pounds is not large enough for a direct ship from a maker - you might find a distributor that might give you a break, but hazmat will kick in, and might entail several on multiple packages Same things holds true for primers - I asked some folks at a gun show who made factory reloads, factory new and sold components what they ordered to get good pricing on things - they had a constant order for 100,000 primers per WEEK coming in, and they weren't the biggest of operations Good luck!

July 13, 2011, 12:20 AM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	Keep in mind that if you do indeed order a large quantity of powder you will want to check into shipping by truck. I ordered several hundred pounds of pulldown powder several years ago and had it shipped by motor freight. The rates are much cheaper than UPS/Fedex and there's no hazmat charges.

July 16, 2011, 07:50 PM	#13
625cnd Member Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 33	Here is the deal, it really does not matter. Commerical truck shipments are limited to a #100 at a time. So unless, you are on truck route that delivers powder you will be limited. You might want to check with Grafs, as they stock larger kegs of powder FFL O6 pricing on primers at one time. Check with the parent of AA and Ramshot, Western Powders. Many of the larger wholesaleer actually run their own trucks, and thus might be able to deliver larger quantities then say a commerical truck. You need to conisder reading up on what the State and Local Ord are on the storage of Powder and Primers. Check the back of free Powder Guides, as most have NFPA guide lines. http://www.imrpowder.com/safeinfo.html

July 17, 2011, 07:41 AM	#14
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	As soon as you get your FFL you will be able to buy powder, primers, and so no, at true wholesale prices, from distributors. Check this out. http://firearmsites.com/Gun-Distributors.html They ONLY sell to gun shops, reloading companies, and sporting goods stores. You will get better prices than any non FFL holder can get anywhere. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

July 17, 2011, 10:52 AM	#15
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	When did Hodgdon start manufacturing smokeless powder?

July 17, 2011, 01:48 PM	#16
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	Hodgdon went into business some time in the 1940s. I don’t think they actually manufactured powder (but sold surplus or had it made for them) till recently when they bought IMR. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

July 17, 2011, 02:51 PM	#17
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Check the back of free Powder Guides, as most have NFPA guide lines. This is true; however, these guidelines are typically grossly out of date. They are based on the standards from 25-years ago. There are differences between NFPA-1985 and NPFA-2010.

July 18, 2011, 09:53 PM	#19
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	Frank, if you intend to commercially load ammo, cost is a major factor. You'll want to be loading military powder that you can buy in bulk-it's far cheaper. I'd suggest the following: http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html http://hi-techammo.com/ http://www.wideners.com/ http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx I get quite a lot from Hi tech and they have been more than reasonable with getting me product even when they don't have it. They can furnish you with loading data for the powders you won't recognize. Barlett(gibrass) is another dependable supplier and will furnish data at your request. Obviously, the more you buy, the better the deal. Do not accept the internet pricing if buying in bulk. Call for pricing. And yes, pricing is always subject to customer attitude.

July 19, 2011, 07:55 AM	#20
LDBennett Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Hesperia CA Posts: 65	Frank_CPL_USMC: Some powder distributors offer discounts to FFL holders. One example is Black Hills Shooter Supplies. http://www.bhshooters.com/ They sell Winchester, Remington, and others bullets and brass. They sell Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, Accurate Arms powders but for a full list of their products you need to visit their web site and maybe even call them. They DO NOT sell retail but only to FFL holders. Their prices are competitive and for powder they include the Hazardous Materials charge in the pricing (no extra fee per shipment). They will sell powder in quantities as small as 10 one pounds can or one 8 pound jug. They also have better pricing for truck shipments (over 100 pounds of product). I am in no way connected to BHSS and only offer this advice based on my personal experience with them. Again, for more specific information contact them. If you call you actually get to talk to a real person. LDBennett

July 20, 2011, 06:42 AM	#22
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	when I was all FFL06ie I mostly used Grafs and Black Hills Shooters Supply for my bulk powder/primer/bullet orders. Recommend both. Anyone know how much a pallet of Rainier 180g TCJ-FP bullets weigh? I do. Anyone know how much WAP I still have? I do; lots....but not enough for making furniture anymore.... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"