AA 12 questions...

hogdogs · February 21, 2008, 12:59 PM

How long ago was it created? Has anyone got any first or second experience with it? What will they cost the government?
Brent

Nemsis · February 21, 2008, 04:06 PM

here's a link from the show Future weapons about it

http://www.filecabi.net/video/AA-12_shotgun.html

SDC · February 21, 2008, 06:21 PM

Atchisson produced his first prototypes of the AA12 in the early 1970s, according to The World's Fighting Shotguns, but there were enough manufacturing and design problems that it is an idea that has never really taken off.

CanoeCrasher · February 22, 2008, 09:23 AM

Now, I'm no expert. I've never been in the military, and my only experience with fully automatic firearms was at a range where they were available for rent.

That being said, I don't think we can trust futureweapons as a source of weapons info. I caught a couple of things from this commercial that would make me cautious of this weapon system.

*It fires from open bolt - doesn't this decrease accuracy?

*Large, cumbersome magazine - the magazine slides up a long rail attached to the front of the trigger housing. It just looks hard to do in a hurry.

*Drum magazines - They looked, to me, really hard to load in a hurry (no stripper clips here!) Also, he had to stick his whole hand into the top of the drum to load each round. Aren't drums generally considered more fragile than their stick counterparts? They have lots of additional moving parts to worry about.

*"Maintenance and Lubrication free" - Didn't they say this about the space-age materials in the M16, too? Just becuase it's made of stainless steel, doesn't mean it can go without maintenance and lubrication.

I think this has been said before about similar systems (Pancor Jackhammer). This seems like a solution in search of a problem. It's big, bulky, heavy, and the rounds are the same. The "Shotgun guy" would have a harder time humping this around along with his regular stuff. If he carries just the shotgun, he can't carry the sheer number of rounds that a guy with an M4 can carry. One of his 32 round drums takes up the space of a half dozen 20-rd mags for an M4. So if it's damaged or dented, and rendered inoperable, he may only have a couple of more drums, whereas if an M4 magazine is damaged, the shooter has many to replace it. Not to mention the difference in sheer number of rounds.

As an upgrade from a current shotgun, it looked harder to load a specialty round. If you need one of those special grenade rounds, or a special breaching round, or whatever, how are you going to put it into the weapon? Remove the mag, stick it in (hard with a drum), reload mag, cycle weapon? This is going to take two hands, which means taking the weapon off-target.

With a traditional semi or pump, the shooter can top off the magazine one-handed without removing the magazine or taking the weapon off-target and then cycle it to have that round available.

The only sandbox I've ever been in looked like a green turtle and sat on my back porch. But this doesn't seem to be a finished solution to me, no matter what Mack says.

CC

VUPDblue · February 22, 2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

*It fires from open bolt - doesn't this decrease accuracy?

It's A Shotgun!

hogdogs · February 22, 2008, 05:03 PM

As many believe, my father thinks everything we are doing over in the "sandbox" is fine and good and going well... I do not... he heard (blogs) this gun is being considered for military contract and that mercenary operation "BLACK WATER" is buying or will be buying them for use in Iraq.
I see no use for an ammo wasting full auto. is it Benneli that has the 12 round auto loader?
I see a full auto "spray and pray" as equal to the "ALA AKBAR" types holding an AK over a wall and just firing...
Am I wrong or is the weight of 12 gauge ammo not suited to full auto wanton discharge?
Brent

rem870hunter · February 23, 2008, 09:28 AM

it looks mean as hell. would love to try one.

VUPDblue · February 23, 2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

I see no use for an ammo wasting full auto. is it Benneli that has the 12 round auto loader?
I see a full auto "spray and pray" as equal to the "ALA AKBAR" types holding an AK over a wall and just firing...
Am I wrong or is the weight of 12 gauge ammo not suited to full auto wanton discharge?
Brent

With Wally-World loads, that firearm would be down-right useless. With the specialty loads out there (some of which were develloped specifically for the AA12) it could be a very practical weapon. Especially in the remote turret mount. The AA12 as a defense against unarmored vehicles, possibly deploying IED's, could be very effective.

hogdogs · February 23, 2008, 01:05 PM

But what benefit is it over 12 rounds from an auto loader? I would like to aquire some of them grenade rounds to play with my Mossberg

Brent

New_Pollution1086 · February 25, 2008, 02:24 AM

I want one.

T

jaysouth · February 25, 2008, 10:21 AM

We have mounted them on remote control helicopters with some success.

Go to www.neural-robotics.com and click on videos and keep scrolling down. This may be the link.

http://neural-robotics.com/Video/Video.html# Its about the 15th video down.

We had only used buckshot so far. There are a number of interesting munitions that can be contained inside a 12 ga. hull including frag grenades, Armor piercing grenades and self contained tasers.

February 21, 2008, 12:59 PM	#1
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	AA 12 questions... How long ago was it created? Has anyone got any first or second experience with it? What will they cost the government? Brent

February 21, 2008, 04:06 PM	#2
Nemsis Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Chicago Posts: 408	here's a link from the show Future weapons about it http://www.filecabi.net/video/AA-12_shotgun.html __________________ "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas

February 21, 2008, 06:21 PM	#3
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Atchisson produced his first prototypes of the AA12 in the early 1970s, according to The World's Fighting Shotguns, but there were enough manufacturing and design problems that it is an idea that has never really taken off. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

February 22, 2008, 09:23 AM	#4
CanoeCrasher Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 49	Ah, futureweapons Now, I'm no expert. I've never been in the military, and my only experience with fully automatic firearms was at a range where they were available for rent. That being said, I don't think we can trust futureweapons as a source of weapons info. I caught a couple of things from this commercial that would make me cautious of this weapon system. It fires from open bolt - doesn't this decrease accuracy? Large, cumbersome magazine - the magazine slides up a long rail attached to the front of the trigger housing. It just looks hard to do in a hurry. Drum magazines - They looked, to me, really hard to load in a hurry (no stripper clips here!) Also, he had to stick his whole hand into the top of the drum to load each round. Aren't drums generally considered more fragile than their stick counterparts? They have lots of additional moving parts to worry about. "Maintenance and Lubrication free" - Didn't they say this about the space-age materials in the M16, too? Just becuase it's made of stainless steel, doesn't mean it can go without maintenance and lubrication. I think this has been said before about similar systems (Pancor Jackhammer). This seems like a solution in search of a problem. It's big, bulky, heavy, and the rounds are the same. The "Shotgun guy" would have a harder time humping this around along with his regular stuff. If he carries just the shotgun, he can't carry the sheer number of rounds that a guy with an M4 can carry. One of his 32 round drums takes up the space of a half dozen 20-rd mags for an M4. So if it's damaged or dented, and rendered inoperable, he may only have a couple of more drums, whereas if an M4 magazine is damaged, the shooter has many to replace it. Not to mention the difference in sheer number of rounds. As an upgrade from a current shotgun, it looked harder to load a specialty round. If you need one of those special grenade rounds, or a special breaching round, or whatever, how are you going to put it into the weapon? Remove the mag, stick it in (hard with a drum), reload mag, cycle weapon? This is going to take two hands, which means taking the weapon off-target. With a traditional semi or pump, the shooter can top off the magazine one-handed without removing the magazine or taking the weapon off-target and then cycle it to have that round available. The only sandbox I've ever been in looked like a green turtle and sat on my back porch. But this doesn't seem to be a finished solution to me, no matter what Mack says. CC Last edited by CanoeCrasher; February 22, 2008 at 09:25 AM. Reason: more ideas

February 25, 2008, 02:24 AM	#10
New_Pollution1086 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2007 Location: WC - CA Posts: 680	I want one. T __________________ "I have ridden the mighty moon worm, and it was good" "Aim Big miss Big, Aim small Miss small" "Don't rush the monkey and you'll see a better show." - T. Boone Pickens

February 22, 2008, 05:03 PM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	As many believe, my father thinks everything we are doing over in the "sandbox" is fine and good and going well... I do not... he heard (blogs) this gun is being considered for military contract and that mercenary operation "BLACK WATER" is buying or will be buying them for use in Iraq. I see no use for an ammo wasting full auto. is it Benneli that has the 12 round auto loader? I see a full auto "spray and pray" as equal to the "ALA AKBAR" types holding an AK over a wall and just firing... Am I wrong or is the weight of 12 gauge ammo not suited to full auto wanton discharge? Brent

February 23, 2008, 09:28 AM	#7
rem870hunter Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2007 Location: N.J. and trying to decide what state to move to. Posts: 973	it looks mean as hell. would love to try one.

February 23, 2008, 01:05 PM	#9
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	But what benefit is it over 12 rounds from an auto loader? I would like to aquire some of them grenade rounds to play with my Mossberg Brent

February 25, 2008, 10:21 AM	#11
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	We have mounted them on remote control helicopters with some success. Go to www.neural-robotics.com and click on videos and keep scrolling down. This may be the link. http://neural-robotics.com/Video/Video.html# Its about the 15th video down. We had only used buckshot so far. There are a number of interesting munitions that can be contained inside a 12 ga. hull including frag grenades, Armor piercing grenades and self contained tasers.