Powders for 308

Shadow9mm · March 27, 2021, 10:07 PM

So I have 4 powders that should be ok for 308. Rl17, cfe223, varget, and benchmark. With that said I'm pretty short on varget and benchmark and am keeping that for loads I already have dialed in. Anyone used rl17 or cfe223 for 308 with 150g. Hogdon shows 51.1g max for cfe223, and alliant shows 50g mag for rl17. 21.5in barrel bolt gun 1:12 twist.

Gonna be working up from start, just kinda tinkering a little. I know they are not ideal powders. Just wanna see if I can make them work until I can, hopefully, find some better powder.

Bart B. · March 27, 2021, 10:49 PM

Varget is the only listed powder i would use for 150 to 180 grain bullets. It's also ideal for those bullet weights.

Others are too fast or slow

Shadow9mm · March 27, 2021, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Varget is the only listed powder i would use for 150 to 180 grain bullets. It's also ideal for those bullet weights.

Others are too fast or slow

I agree, but varget is hard to come by and I only have 3/4lb left. I just can't justify it when I need it for 30-06 loads I already have dialed in. I have 1lb of rl17 I never used to play with, and a fair bit of cfe223 so I can spare 1lb. I know they are not ideal, like I said, just tinkering to see what I can make it do. Not expecting high velocity or amazing performance. Just wantin a reasonably accurate load for plinking and ringing steel.

Reloadron · March 28, 2021, 11:48 AM

When I load .308 Winchester it depends on the rifle I am loading for. Loading for any of my gas guns be it M1A or AR10 I like IMR4895, Hodgdon 4895 or AA2495 and load mostly AA 2495 with Varget being about the slowest powder I load for gas guns. If I open it up to bolt guns or lever guns then IMR4064, RL15 and a few VihtaVuori powders figure in like N-135, N-140 and N-150 figure in. With a 1:12 twist bolt gun you have some options, I would just see what works best of what you can spare.

I would try the RL 17 and see what you get.

Ron

ligonierbill · March 28, 2021, 12:14 PM

My "standard" 308 loads are with Re-15. CFE223 works great with 130 and 150 TTSX and 165 SGK, just haven't tried it with other 150's. I am a big user of Re-17; it should work with a pretty full case (check of Quickload says 105% for a reasonable velocity).

RC20 · March 28, 2021, 02:31 PM

A big part of the aspects is that sometimes some powders are not tried because there are so many known powders.

So, the approach is to look at burn rates for what is around the powders that are known to work as well as any loads that are in those powders that are close.

Also you pull up the mfg load data and see if they have references to it which you did.

No reason no to try either one. You do want to keep an eye on the fill and if its getting compressed at all levels (I believe Alliant is a Max load and then subtract 10% for start on the R17).

Right now I have a lot of H4831 (8 lbs before and found 8 lbs of LC after the big powder hit). I shoot it in the 30-06.

But, man, that is a magnum powder. Well that is its rep, but I got a couple of 3/8 groups on a trial test of a new barrel (I have shot it in the past though with decent results of under 3/4 MOA though I gravitated more to the 4350/R17 as the old barrel tended to like hotter loads).

No I did not use magnum primers (horrors). I have some old 3031 I have used across a spectrum of 308 to 30-06. Works as well. I have figured out if I have really good loads and on a good day I might be able to shoot 1/4 inch MOA.

Maybe not bench rest accurate but there is no reason not to try unless its absolutely so far out as to be ridiculous (B eye in a 308 comes to mind but you might be able to do cast bullets at lower velocity)

kilotanker22 · March 28, 2021, 11:31 PM

Too bad you don't have any BLC-(2) available. I have found it to be an excellent powder for 308 Win, although there is not a lot of data for it. I get very tight ES and SD numbers with 130-168 grain bullets. That is dropping charges with my Uniflow powder measure. All charges were within .06 grains when I weighed a string of 50 charges. Most were within .04 grains.

Bart B. · March 29, 2021, 08:40 AM

The reason why there's not much data for BLC2 with medium weight bullets in 308 ammo is probably it never produced best accuracy like IMR4895 or Varget did with a 3/10ths grain spread of thrown charges.

Chipperman · March 29, 2021, 09:52 AM

I have used RL17 with 147 grain FMJ bullets. Not exactly 150 but close.
The charges were 46-47.3 grains of RL17
The best accuracy I got with my rifles was with 47.3.
I was shooting an M1A and an AR10

Hope this helps

RC20 · March 29, 2021, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Too bad you don't have any BLC-(2) available.

Well its too bad a lot of powders are not available but the post was what he had to work with not what others think is the best powder.

Back to, it may not be bench rest accurate but with due cross checks other powders can work and he can do some shooting.

And the wisdom is based on the caliber in general, you may find a one off that does nicely in a random barrel.

As I love to say, its worth a Shot!

T. O'Heir · March 29, 2021, 01:06 PM

IMR4064 is good. Mind you, finding any powder is problematic these days.
There was a lot of complaining about Varget being hard to find before the Covid Panic. It's made in Australia and there was a shortage going back to 2019.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...upply-in-2020/
Knew guys who used BL-C2 in their FALs years ago.
"...Not exactly 150..." A 147 is loaded with 150 grain data with no fuss anyway.

hounddawg · March 29, 2021, 03:11 PM

PV had Norma 202 on their site for 2 days, good for 150 gn and up. According to some 202 was developed for the .308 Win, never used it myself becasue it is rumored to be a dirty powder. I have a fair supply of BLC 2 or would have snagged a few pounds myself

kilotanker22 · March 29, 2021, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

The reason why there's not much data for BLC2 with medium weight bullets in 308 ammo is probably it never produced best accuracy like IMR4895 or Varget did with a 3/10ths grain spread of thrown charges.

Makes sense

Shadow9mm · March 30, 2021, 10:33 AM

So if it makes anyone feel better. I did find some BL-C(2) powder picked up 4lb to play with. Gonna try the cfe223 as well though, but the BL-C(2) looks pretty versatile for 308 and 30-06 with 150-180

Reloadron · March 30, 2021, 12:02 PM

When it comes to powder during these times. This is much like following Sandy Hook and the last great reloading component shortage. We all have powders we love for certain loads. It's like the old song says, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with. Predictable load data aside during the last shortage people were using what they could get and in some cases it worked out well, very well. You never know till you give a powder a try.

I load BL-C(2) mostly in .223 Remington and never tried it in .308 Winchester. However if I did not have my usual Go-To powders I would have no reservation in giving it a try.

Ron

RC20 · March 30, 2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

So if it makes anyone feel better. I did find some BL-C(2) powder picked up 4lb to play with. Gonna try the cfe223 as well though, but the BL-C(2) looks pretty versatile for 308 and 30-06 with 150-180

Good for you, I am not sure better or worse. I am good with all right now, next year maybe not so much.

**Unclenick** · March 30, 2021, 04:33 PM

BL-C(2) is one of the powders CCI changed their magnum primers for back in 1989. IME, it likes the extra flame and pressure. Accurate 2520 is similar. If you have trouble getting decent velocity SD from it, try magnum primers. If you can't get any, try deburring flash holes. I haven't done it with BL-C(2) but found it helped a lot with 2520, bringing my groups down to about where my stick powders were shooting. This was with standard primers. Without going that extra mile, the groups at 100 yards were about 67% bigger than the stick powder groups (1¼" vs. ¾" for 10 shots, typically). I never saw the deburring do anything for the stick powders one way or the other, and since this was a gas gun (M1A) off bags and with an offset scope mount, I suspect I was at the limits of the rifle.

Shadow9mm · March 30, 2021, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

BL-C(2) is one of the powders CCI changed their magnum primers for back in 1989. IME, it likes the extra flame and pressure. Accurate 2520 is similar. If you have trouble getting decent velocity SD from it, try magnum primers. If you can't get any, try deburring flash holes. I haven't done it with BL-C(2) but found it helped a lot with 2520, bringing my groups down to about where my stick powders were shooting. This was with standard primers. Without going that extra mile, the groups at 100 yards were about 67% bigger than the stick powder groups (1¼" vs. ¾" for 10 shots, typically). I never saw the deburring do anything for the stick powders one way or the other, and since this was a gas gun (M1A) off bags and with an offset scope mount, I suspect I was at the limits of the rifle.

Will keep the magnum primers in mind. Thank you,

kilotanker22 · March 30, 2021, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Will keep the magnum primers in mind. Thank you,

I found the same as Unclenick when I started shooting BLC-(2). CCI 450 and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum have worked the best for me with that powder.

Shadow9mm · March 31, 2021, 08:53 PM

Got ahold of 1000 large mag primers, just in case.

hounddawg · April 1, 2021, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Accurate 2520 is similar. If you have trouble getting decent velocity SD from it, try magnum primers.

good to know, just bought 8 pounds of the stuff. Not meaning to derail

jmr40 · April 1, 2021, 05:01 PM

Quote:

but varget is hard to come by and I only have 3/4lb left. I just can't justify it when I need it for 30-06 loads I already have dialed in.

Use the Varget for 308. It isn't a very good choice for your 30-06 and darn near perfect for 308. The RL 17 is a better choice for 30-06 than Varget.

HiBC · April 1, 2021, 05:19 PM

RE-15 is a good 308 powder. That may not be available either,but some Norma powders seem to be available.

I cannot confirm this,please do not jump to any conclusions, but Someone on TFL claimed RE-15 and N-140 might be the same powder.
I would not assume RE-15 data would be good for N-140, but if I needed RE-15 and found N-140, I'd buy it and use N-140 data.

hounddawg · April 1, 2021, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Someone on TFL claimed RE-15 and N-140 might be the same powder.

I think the guy on TFL was slightly confused. VV is made in Finland, RL 15 and Norma in the Bofors plant in Sweden

Quote:

Target Shooter Magazine writer Laurie Holland compared Norma 203B and Reloder 15 using data from QuickLOAD. Laurie also checked load manuals to see how listed charge weights varied for the two propellants. Laurie concluded there was very little difference between Norma 203B and Reloder 15.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/bofors/

Shadow9mm · April 1, 2021, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

Use the Varget for 308. It isn't a very good choice for your 30-06 and darn near perfect for 308. The RL 17 is a better choice for 30-06 than Varget.

I have not tried it yet. My main reason for sticking with varget is the temperature stability. Got too many Irons in the fire right now with 9mm, 223, and now 308. having problems with cast bullets in 9mm which I hope will be ironed out soon. Trying to get a 223 load finalized. Switching primers and have to re-test charge weights for it. Once that is done I need to do the last bit of testing for my 30-06 to finalize my hunting load. Not to mention a LOT of 9mm, 223, and 308 brass I am in the middle of processing.....

Then I can start on the 308 and start tinkering with my 30-06 and some match bullets.

March 27, 2021, 10:07 PM	#1
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Powders for 308 So I have 4 powders that should be ok for 308. Rl17, cfe223, varget, and benchmark. With that said I'm pretty short on varget and benchmark and am keeping that for loads I already have dialed in. Anyone used rl17 or cfe223 for 308 with 150g. Hogdon shows 51.1g max for cfe223, and alliant shows 50g mag for rl17. 21.5in barrel bolt gun 1:12 twist. Gonna be working up from start, just kinda tinkering a little. I know they are not ideal powders. Just wanna see if I can make them work until I can, hopefully, find some better powder. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; March 27, 2021 at 10:33 PM.

March 28, 2021, 02:31 PM	#6
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	A big part of the aspects is that sometimes some powders are not tried because there are so many known powders. So, the approach is to look at burn rates for what is around the powders that are known to work as well as any loads that are in those powders that are close. Also you pull up the mfg load data and see if they have references to it which you did. No reason no to try either one. You do want to keep an eye on the fill and if its getting compressed at all levels (I believe Alliant is a Max load and then subtract 10% for start on the R17). Right now I have a lot of H4831 (8 lbs before and found 8 lbs of LC after the big powder hit). I shoot it in the 30-06. But, man, that is a magnum powder. Well that is its rep, but I got a couple of 3/8 groups on a trial test of a new barrel (I have shot it in the past though with decent results of under 3/4 MOA though I gravitated more to the 4350/R17 as the old barrel tended to like hotter loads). No I did not use magnum primers (horrors). I have some old 3031 I have used across a spectrum of 308 to 30-06. Works as well. I have figured out if I have really good loads and on a good day I might be able to shoot 1/4 inch MOA. Maybe not bench rest accurate but there is no reason not to try unless its absolutely so far out as to be ridiculous (B eye in a 308 comes to mind but you might be able to do cast bullets at lower velocity) __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 28, 2021, 11:31 PM	#7
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Too bad you don't have any BLC-(2) available. I have found it to be an excellent powder for 308 Win, although there is not a lot of data for it. I get very tight ES and SD numbers with 130-168 grain bullets. That is dropping charges with my Uniflow powder measure. All charges were within .06 grains when I weighed a string of 50 charges. Most were within .04 grains. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

March 29, 2021, 01:06 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	IMR4064 is good. Mind you, finding any powder is problematic these days. There was a lot of complaining about Varget being hard to find before the Covid Panic. It's made in Australia and there was a shortage going back to 2019. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...upply-in-2020/ Knew guys who used BL-C2 in their FALs years ago. "...Not exactly 150..." A 147 is loaded with 150 grain data with no fuss anyway. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 29, 2021, 03:11 PM	#12
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	PV had Norma 202 on their site for 2 days, good for 150 gn and up. According to some 202 was developed for the .308 Win, never used it myself becasue it is rumored to be a dirty powder. I have a fair supply of BLC 2 or would have snagged a few pounds myself __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 27, 2021, 10:49 PM	#2
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Varget is the only listed powder i would use for 150 to 180 grain bullets. It's also ideal for those bullet weights. Others are too fast or slow

March 28, 2021, 11:48 AM	#4
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	When I load .308 Winchester it depends on the rifle I am loading for. Loading for any of my gas guns be it M1A or AR10 I like IMR4895, Hodgdon 4895 or AA2495 and load mostly AA 2495 with Varget being about the slowest powder I load for gas guns. If I open it up to bolt guns or lever guns then IMR4064, RL15 and a few VihtaVuori powders figure in like N-135, N-140 and N-150 figure in. With a 1:12 twist bolt gun you have some options, I would just see what works best of what you can spare. I would try the RL 17 and see what you get. Ron

March 28, 2021, 12:14 PM	#5
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	My "standard" 308 loads are with Re-15. CFE223 works great with 130 and 150 TTSX and 165 SGK, just haven't tried it with other 150's. I am a big user of Re-17; it should work with a pretty full case (check of Quickload says 105% for a reasonable velocity).

March 29, 2021, 08:40 AM	#8
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	The reason why there's not much data for BLC2 with medium weight bullets in 308 ammo is probably it never produced best accuracy like IMR4895 or Varget did with a 3/10ths grain spread of thrown charges.

March 29, 2021, 09:52 AM	#9
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	I have used RL17 with 147 grain FMJ bullets. Not exactly 150 but close. The charges were 46-47.3 grains of RL17 The best accuracy I got with my rifles was with 47.3. I was shooting an M1A and an AR10 Hope this helps

March 30, 2021, 10:33 AM	#14
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	So if it makes anyone feel better. I did find some BL-C(2) powder picked up 4lb to play with. Gonna try the cfe223 as well though, but the BL-C(2) looks pretty versatile for 308 and 30-06 with 150-180 __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

March 30, 2021, 12:02 PM	#15
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	When it comes to powder during these times. This is much like following Sandy Hook and the last great reloading component shortage. We all have powders we love for certain loads. It's like the old song says, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with. Predictable load data aside during the last shortage people were using what they could get and in some cases it worked out well, very well. You never know till you give a powder a try. I load BL-C(2) mostly in .223 Remington and never tried it in .308 Winchester. However if I did not have my usual Go-To powders I would have no reservation in giving it a try. Ron

March 30, 2021, 04:33 PM	#17
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	BL-C(2) is one of the powders CCI changed their magnum primers for back in 1989. IME, it likes the extra flame and pressure. Accurate 2520 is similar. If you have trouble getting decent velocity SD from it, try magnum primers. If you can't get any, try deburring flash holes. I haven't done it with BL-C(2) but found it helped a lot with 2520, bringing my groups down to about where my stick powders were shooting. This was with standard primers. Without going that extra mile, the groups at 100 yards were about 67% bigger than the stick powder groups (1¼" vs. ¾" for 10 shots, typically). I never saw the deburring do anything for the stick powders one way or the other, and since this was a gas gun (M1A) off bags and with an offset scope mount, I suspect I was at the limits of the rifle. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 31, 2021, 08:53 PM	#20
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Got ahold of 1000 large mag primers, just in case. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

April 1, 2021, 05:19 PM	#23
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	RE-15 is a good 308 powder. That may not be available either,but some Norma powders seem to be available. I cannot confirm this,please do not jump to any conclusions, but Someone on TFL claimed RE-15 and N-140 might be the same powder. I would not assume RE-15 data would be good for N-140, but if I needed RE-15 and found N-140, I'd buy it and use N-140 data.