m1 carbine

joeychai · July 8, 2007, 08:03 PM

A friend recently acquired a Underwood m1 carbine in excellent condition. All markings and parts ( including flash suppressor) appear to be original. The marking on the tip of thebarrell is 10-43 indicating it was made in 1943. The problem is the serial number which is E105. Yes, clear and only 3 numbers. My sources show no manufacturer beginning with and E and Underwood's serials began with 1350000 not three digits.
Any help will be appreciated.

James K · July 9, 2007, 01:44 PM

In "War Baby", Larry Ruth says, "In addition to the production model, Underwood made at least one series of experimental or presentation carbines. The author is aware of one such carbine, marked E259...[it] appears to be identical to the production model.... No additional information is available."

So it sounds like your friend has a rare and interesting carbine.

Jim

Tom2 · July 9, 2007, 04:33 PM

The cone shaped "flash suppressor" was an item that was made for the M3 carbine, with the huge awkward night vision IR device, as far as I know. That had a handguard with a opening in the top and a mount for the IR device. Very late war mod. So it might be original GI but not necessarily original to that particular gun. If it is a presentation gun, it is worth quite alot more than the run of the mill, especially probaby that brand. Inland made alot of presentation guns. I had one once and it cost me 2500$, although it was mint condx. and unfired. Probably alot more now. So you have a gun up in the 4 figures range if it is all Underwood parts or unmolested. Hopefully in good condx. too! Maybe consult with one of the carbine collector clubs online and see what they say about that and what to look for. If it is cherry, maybe too valuable to shoot much if it puts wear and tear on it!

joeychai · July 9, 2007, 07:27 PM

Thank you for your help. Yes, the flash suppressor is marked M3. The gun is all underwood parts and looks to be original. I'll research it furthur through the sources you've suggested.

James K · July 9, 2007, 07:27 PM

A flash suppressor would not have been issued with a standard M1 Carbine, but if the "E" stood for experimental, the gun could have some non-standard configuration. Or a previous owner could have put it on for fun.

Jim

Tom2 · July 10, 2007, 04:17 PM

In any case from the description, it is too valuable to be a knock around plinker or something like that. You could probably sell it and buy a couple regular carbines, at least! Probably certain that the flash hider was a owner add on. Gun is from 43, flash hiders and M3's did not appear till 45, I think. M3's might have only been made by one or two makers, like M2's. Sounds like you better baby it. Clean inspect preserve. Or at least preserve. Any wear will detract from it.

Tom2 · July 11, 2007, 05:35 PM

Well, how about some pictures too? Tantalize us with story of a rare item and no see!

joeychai · July 11, 2007, 06:25 PM

Sorry for not including them earlier. I'll take some tomorrow and send them. Again, thanks to all for your help.

joeychai · July 11, 2007, 08:18 PM

IMG_2794a.jpg

IMG_2798a.jpg

IMG_2801a.jpg

Please let me know if you'd like anything else and thank you for your help.

RickB · July 12, 2007, 12:48 PM

That gun's been around a bit, if it was built in '43. It has a fully-adjustable sight, and a M2 stock, neither of which was available in '43.

Tom2 · July 13, 2007, 06:57 PM

So it has been arsenal updated or at least someone has installed later parts that I can see. Might be some more I can't see. Odd that a gun with an experimental prefix would get into the system and be updated like that. Pretty sure the M2 stock was probably put on postwar, as I don't think they were putting them on at the time that Winchester and Inland were building the M2's. This looks like something an expert should examine but it for sure is not all original 1943, like the man said. Still the unusual serial makes it sorta more valuable. I guess you could start searching for original type parts to restore it to WW2 configuration, which would really enhance the value if well done. But those parts are getting harder to find. Does it have the rotary versus button safety, and does it have a bayonet lug or not?

joeychai · July 13, 2007, 09:01 PM

While the book is not at my disposal at the moment, we did check in an m1 book and the sights are original. They were made by Inland as they should be ( at this time, Underwood did not make sights ) and are contemporary with the gun. We had an expert look at it and he feels it is all original except of course, the flash hider. We feel that at some point in time the gun was "field modified" to a m2 and then returned to an m1. It does not nor should it have a banoet fitting. They came later. The finish is very good and the gun completly functional.

July 8, 2007, 08:03 PM	#1
joeychai Junior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Posts: 6	m1 carbine A friend recently acquired a Underwood m1 carbine in excellent condition. All markings and parts ( including flash suppressor) appear to be original. The marking on the tip of thebarrell is 10-43 indicating it was made in 1943. The problem is the serial number which is E105. Yes, clear and only 3 numbers. My sources show no manufacturer beginning with and E and Underwood's serials began with 1350000 not three digits. Any help will be appreciated.

July 9, 2007, 07:27 PM	#4
joeychai Junior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Posts: 6	Thank You Thank you for your help. Yes, the flash suppressor is marked M3. The gun is all underwood parts and looks to be original. I'll research it furthur through the sources you've suggested.

July 11, 2007, 06:25 PM	#8
joeychai Junior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Posts: 6	Pictures Sorry for not including them earlier. I'll take some tomorrow and send them. Again, thanks to all for your help.

July 11, 2007, 08:18 PM	#9
joeychai Junior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Posts: 6	Pictures IMG_2794a.jpg IMG_2798a.jpg IMG_2801a.jpg Please let me know if you'd like anything else and thank you for your help.

July 13, 2007, 09:01 PM	#12
joeychai Junior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Posts: 6	Original parts While the book is not at my disposal at the moment, we did check in an m1 book and the sights are original. They were made by Inland as they should be ( at this time, Underwood did not make sights ) and are contemporary with the gun. We had an expert look at it and he feels it is all original except of course, the flash hider. We feel that at some point in time the gun was "field modified" to a m2 and then returned to an m1. It does not nor should it have a banoet fitting. They came later. The finish is very good and the gun completly functional.

July 9, 2007, 01:44 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	In "War Baby", Larry Ruth says, "In addition to the production model, Underwood made at least one series of experimental or presentation carbines. The author is aware of one such carbine, marked E259...[it] appears to be identical to the production model.... No additional information is available." So it sounds like your friend has a rare and interesting carbine. Jim

July 9, 2007, 04:33 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	The cone shaped "flash suppressor" was an item that was made for the M3 carbine, with the huge awkward night vision IR device, as far as I know. That had a handguard with a opening in the top and a mount for the IR device. Very late war mod. So it might be original GI but not necessarily original to that particular gun. If it is a presentation gun, it is worth quite alot more than the run of the mill, especially probaby that brand. Inland made alot of presentation guns. I had one once and it cost me 2500$, although it was mint condx. and unfired. Probably alot more now. So you have a gun up in the 4 figures range if it is all Underwood parts or unmolested. Hopefully in good condx. too! Maybe consult with one of the carbine collector clubs online and see what they say about that and what to look for. If it is cherry, maybe too valuable to shoot much if it puts wear and tear on it!

July 10, 2007, 04:17 PM	#6
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	In any case from the description, it is too valuable to be a knock around plinker or something like that. You could probably sell it and buy a couple regular carbines, at least! Probably certain that the flash hider was a owner add on. Gun is from 43, flash hiders and M3's did not appear till 45, I think. M3's might have only been made by one or two makers, like M2's. Sounds like you better baby it. Clean inspect preserve. Or at least preserve. Any wear will detract from it.

July 11, 2007, 05:35 PM	#7
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Well, how about some pictures too? Tantalize us with story of a rare item and no see!

July 12, 2007, 12:48 PM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	That gun's been around a bit, if it was built in '43. It has a fully-adjustable sight, and a M2 stock, neither of which was available in '43.

July 13, 2007, 06:57 PM	#11
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	So it has been arsenal updated or at least someone has installed later parts that I can see. Might be some more I can't see. Odd that a gun with an experimental prefix would get into the system and be updated like that. Pretty sure the M2 stock was probably put on postwar, as I don't think they were putting them on at the time that Winchester and Inland were building the M2's. This looks like something an expert should examine but it for sure is not all original 1943, like the man said. Still the unusual serial makes it sorta more valuable. I guess you could start searching for original type parts to restore it to WW2 configuration, which would really enhance the value if well done. But those parts are getting harder to find. Does it have the rotary versus button safety, and does it have a bayonet lug or not?