Alternatives when you can't carry?

[flintshooter]

I might carry my tomahawk. Makes a very serious statement.

[BlackFeather]

What kind? Any training with it?

[silentargus]

Pepper spray is my pick. Depending on state/local laws you may face restrictions on that, too; in NJ, for example, canisters with more than about 3 seconds' worth of spray time are about as legal as bazookas... so you'd pretty much be carrying the pepper spray equivalent of a single derringer.

Make sure to get a can with a stream nozzle, though. You'll have to buy a few and practice aiming with them (~$10 a pop for the little ones), but they have more range and are much less susceptible to little problems like a change in the breeze turning your own weapon against you. Ergonomics are another consideration... some local laws might prohibit the 'scary weapon' looking things like Kimber's Pepper Blasters, or other canisters/sprayers that may or may not be easier to use.

A good, solid multitool also makes a superb fist-filler (most of them don't have quick-opening knives), but everyone should have one of those anyhow. Not having a multitool is like leaving home without your pants on. Mine is a Leatherman Sideclip- the predecessor of what is now being called the Wave (same basic set of tools, but no polymer inserts or locking tabs. Instead of those it had a pocket clip and in/cm marks so it could be used as a ruler when opened flat).

With multitools, though, you run the risk of turning into that guy/gal who everyone always asks for help doing silly little things they could have done themselves if they had the smarts to carry their own. You've been warned.

Whatever alternative(s) you settle on, try to find the least 'scary looking' ones you can. Chances are if you're in a place that won't let you CCW (college campus, crappy state, NYC, etc...) they'll bust your chops about anything that even remotely looks like it could be used as a weapon.

[TheGoldenState]

Honestly people should know how to fight, or at least throw a proper punch, and know how to shoot (and stuff) a takedown.

It is the most primal form of self-defense, and it is as important as any method, much moreso than a vast majority of others, imo.

[Steviewonder1]

Fox Labs stream Pepper spray and a very nice spring assisted opening stainless steel pocket knife. When carrying, it is a G-19 with Cor-Bon DPX.

[flintshooter]

Blackfeather, a reproduction hex head throwing hawk. 15 years at the rendezvous games and split cards and leaves pretty regular. I do not really carry it for protection, just adding my thoughts but, I would think it is something that would make a goon think twice.

[Skans]

Once your on the ground all sorts of bad things can happen, especially if more than one threats are present.

There are times I like taking it to the ground, especially if someone is an equally good or better fighter than I am and has reach on me - I'm taking them down....and then I'll use whatever my opponent presents to me first. My preference is using chokes and smothering, if possible. Some folks prefer arm bars, groin attacks, taking out joints if possible.

[BlackFeather]

Originally Posted by flintshooter

Blackfeather, a reproduction hex head throwing hawk. 15 years at the rendezvous games and split cards and leaves pretty regular. I do not really carry it for protection, just adding my thoughts but, I would think it is something that would make a goon think twice.

Nice, and impressive skill. I don't throw tomahawks, usually. I throw knives for the most part, still don't think I could be hitting cards. Then again I'm a bit out of practice lately. I prefer to fight with hawks, just my preference.

[irish52084]

Taking it t the ground is all fine and dandy with a singular opponent, but not usually a good idea with multiple opponents or if the opponents friends are near.

[MoBart]

My buddy once told me.his gramp used to take a length of pipe and.roll a newsnpaper around it, and it looked like a paper. Nobody reads a paper anymore but the point is, anything can be a weapon, or any weapon can be disquiesed (sp?). I always carry a pocket clip kne hand or assisted opening pocket knife. Not much more then a last dirch holly crap type weapon but usefull as hell for a million other things. Im a Marine and the most usefuk part of the MCMAP was the improvised weapons classes, what ever is at hand, can fill your hand. Be aware of your surroundings, what and who are n them, and how they can he used or manipulated to hinder and attack and effect an escape. Or, in rural southe1 english, drop ya a big ol' rock on that ****heads foot and run like hell, lol. The flashlight mentioned before is a geeat idea to, blind an assailent and if worst gets to worst, it can be an effective mpact weapon. Most have some form of ridges deaigned as an impact device. Remember, self defense means stopping and or deterring a threat, and the legal afterwords crap will demand reasonable action on your part at all times. On the other hand, at the end.of every day, Id take judgment by 12 then transportantion by 6

[Gbro]

This is a handy to have close item where a firearm isn't allowed or not old enough to have a carry permit.
This will shoot a heavy stream up to 20 ft. and very little chance in it coming back at you.
And this isn't my idea!

[Willie Sutton]

Another fine product from our friends at Kimber:

http://store.kimberamerica.com/Produ...1/Default.aspx


FAR better than any spray.
Likely better than any .380 for an instant stop.

Choice of guards in many finer penal establishments.


There's a more professional firearm-looking version that it the real professional choice, but these work great. Two shots, pyrotechnically projected, no chance of spraying yourself, and very accurate. More like a pistol than an aerosol.



Willie

.

[farmerboy]

dont go if you dont have to

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Wasp spray is not a good solution. It is a neurotoxin and dangerous. In some locales it is specifically illegal to use in any manner than intended. If you try to use it in a nonlethal situation and it does grievous harm - you won't look good.

Deliberately carrying it for a weapon would be frowned upon.

Search on the topic for references.

[CaptainObvious]

Remember folks that if you get yourself into a fight of any kind and especially if you use a weapon of any kind there will be consequences. The police might just come and arrest everyone then let the Prosecutor figure out the next steps. The jurisdiction I am in they run all serious assaults through a grand jury to determine the "next steps". Therefore, you want to avoid trouble. For example, I went to a movie theatre last night and when I pulled in there were some young characters who looked a bit thuggish (for a lack of a better word). So I drove right out the exit of the parking lot and found another movie theatre where I felt more comfortable. I know I can defend myself against these characters, but why would I want to try? I would rather just find another place to watch my movie.

So with that disclaimer stated I would say Fox Labs pepper spray is the best. If that doesnt distract someone then Im not sure what will. All of the departments here use it and its well known among many. If you do use it, then prepare to be scrutinized by the local authorities. You want to avoid using it...IMHO.

[Clane]

I'd say Good self defense Techniques are irreplaceable, a good pocket knife with a locking blade ( I carry a leatherman MUT) , But something that is very inconspicuous is the UZI tactical Pen 2 or the UZI tactical defender Pen.

[hagar]

Kimber Life-act, knife, green laser. I will go no place in the US again where I cannot carry, but I just visited South Africa in December after a 12 year absence. Sadly, one cannot take handguns there anymore. My mo was to carry Kimber in front right pocket, knife in left, and laser in rear right. I think a laser in the eye would discourage most muggers if you have something to back that up with. Thankfully I had a great time in SA with no incidents.

[Erikbal]

It's too bad pepper spray is illegal in NYS. A bunch of nonsense if you ask me, or else I'd be carrying that too and I'd have one more defense to use before having to shoot, or like this topic is about, when I can't carry..

[riggins_83]

Benchmade Griptilian....

[Webleymkv]

While certainly not "non-lethal", I still carry my Kershaw Tanto Blur in many places and situations that I cannot carry a firearm. Also, while it's a bit bulky to carry on your person, a 4 D-Cell Maglite makes a fearsome weapon in the right hands.

[KWalk313000]

Kershaw Leek
I have a taser for nonlethal carry I forget the brand I dont carry it too often.
also a k-bar fixed blade and baseball bat in my truck

[ltc444]

My canes, Use two because of blown knees.
Note: The American Tae Kwando Association has a course in their use.

Mental attitude: Age and treachery will beat youth and skill any time.

Don't talk when confronted assess the situation then attack. Maim your first opponent then focus on the next. Generally, most members of a pack are followers, if the Alphas go down the betas will leave.

G.Gordon Liddy's discussions in his book Will expound this basic philosphy.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I don't think OC is illegal in NYS but there are rules:

The New York State Self-Defense Spray Law - Penal Law 265.20
Requires special labeling and control of sales. In order to purchase this product the law states:

• You must be over the age of 18.
• You must have no history of felony convictions or assaults.
• Product must be purchased from an authorized dealer, pharmacy or gun dealer.
• You must complete a form with your name, address, birth date and signature.

If this isn't current, please correct me.

[bikerbill]

Even when I'm armed, I always have a knife with me ... make sure you know the laws in your area about the legal length of blade you can carry ... great tools and an excellent port in a non-gun storm ...

If my wife is with me, she always carries a Kimber two-shot pepper spray gizmo in her purse ...

[FairWarning]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenState

Honestly people should know how to fight, or at least throw a proper punch, and know how to shoot (and stuff) a takedown.

It is the most primal form of self-defense, and it is as important as any method, much moreso than a vast majority of others, imo.

Absolutely. I think many gun lovers tend to neglect this. It's not enough to have read about those things or to have done them in the past, you need practice (not once every 5 years) so that your body is used to them. If you didn't get real fighting experience at some point in your youth or later on, at the very least you should make working out with a heavy bag part of your workout routine. You'd be surprised how much your wrists are challenged by pounding the heavy bag even if you lift weights all the time. Not the same as rapid impacts against something that doesn't want to move. You need to have your body programmed to naturally throw punches and KEEP throwing them (no 10 punches then rest routine, simulate a real boxing round).

I often wear so called "combat" gloves that contain steel shot in a padded area above the knuckles. They look very much like normal black leather gloves, but you'd definitely have more impact with every hit. Might be enough to turn the tide in your favor. Police style tactical gloves with protruding hard knuckles are not stealthy at all, although they could give the same kind of advantage.

Also, someone said it earlier----the mind, via treachery, is a weapon.