October 29, 2009, 01:01 PM | #1 |
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speed-load system
I'm trying to perfect a single push speed-load system using a clear tube with 2 pyrodex pellets and a sabot with a oiled cleaning patch.I'm wondering if anyone thinks there might be a problem if the patch remains seated on top of the sabot in the barrel and fired that way.What say you?
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October 29, 2009, 02:05 PM | #2 |
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robhof
I wouldn't want to have anything on top of any bullet in any gun, except wads for shot. The patch could be driven to one side and cause a pressure problem, or if you're lucky, just affect the POI and overall accuracy. Even for round ball shooting; for best accuracy the patch isn't supposed to extend much over the sides of the ball.
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October 29, 2009, 02:52 PM | #3 |
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Anything forward of a ball in a barrel is called an obstruction ... I wun't do it.
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October 29, 2009, 04:12 PM | #4 |
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Thanks guys,thats exactly the input I needed.In my way of thinking,the patch was soft and could be pushed out ahead of the bullet.but I can see how it could be climbed on and cause an obstruction as the bullet came forward.I'll keep playing with it till I figure a way to make sure I can retrieve the patch when I pull the ramrod.Great forum!
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October 30, 2009, 09:03 AM | #5 |
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Barrel cleaning should be done BEFORE loading. A sabot is made to shoot through a DRY barrel. If you put any oil in the barrel after loading you will not get any accuracy out of your sabots.
Lots of people have tried to make cleaning and loading a little easier, but as to date I have yet to see anyone who has been able to improve on the original process of cleaning first and loading second. They are two separate parts of muzzle loading and trying to put them both together just doesn't work. My 2 cents |
October 31, 2009, 02:01 AM | #6 |
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In years past hunting muleys.I've had to try 2nd and third shots(in one case,4)no need to bare my soul,you guys know how that happens,by the third reload I had a time getting the bullet seated and the buck was putting distance between us.It's pretty tough dragging a smokepole over rough terrain trying to follow the correct sequence with one eye on your barrel and the other trying to keep the deer in sight huffing and puffing like a freight train pulling a grade.So in my simple mind i'm thinking,if I could figger a way to do this in one stroke(dump the pellets,sabot, push em down with a swab or patch-voila! he's only 150 yds out,I can get another crack at him.and now you guys tell me this won't work?I'm getting old,fat and outta shape but i'm not gonna quit, so I will figure out a way to reload quicker and maintain accuracy.Thats why I'm asking questions and with your help,I can do it.I just need to know what has worked for you and what hasn't.Appreciate your help
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October 31, 2009, 08:12 AM | #7 |
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Why not try a cleaner powder? IMO, Pyrodex(although good) is not the cleanest powder out there. I can get about three shots off using American Pioneer loose powder before swabbing/cleaning and accuracy is still plenty good enough for hunting. Barrel to boolit dimensions,YMMV.Just a suggestion.
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October 31, 2009, 11:38 AM | #8 |
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I may have found a solution.I picked up a pack of powerbelt plats the other day and read the entire instruction sheet.They claim 6 to 8 shots with no cleaning so I'm going to head to the range and give it a try.If I can shoot that many times accuratly?,I'll be forced to face the naked truth.(I thought I was past buck fever)
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October 31, 2009, 12:29 PM | #9 |
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Shortwave,when I got my Hawken many years ago,(I have acquired a TC Encore and my favorite,a Ruger 77/50 since)I got a flask and a adjustable powder measure with it.In an excited moment of reloading,I spilled powder,lost my measure,probably put 3-400 grains in the barrel.The reason I still have a face to shoot with is probably because of that heavy well made old Hawken.I still have most of a can of powder from back then,but I now use mostly pellets to avoid that kind of blunder.If I get to the point where I do a lot more shooting at the range,it would be fun to experiment with loose powder loads and bullets.Thank you for your reply
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October 31, 2009, 02:18 PM | #10 |
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lara, sorry to hear of your blunder and thank 'God' your ok. Even more thankful there wasn`t a hot ember left in the pipe. If you ever want to shoot loose powder in the field, take your speed loaders and load them with your desired 100grns.(or whatever) of powder. Hope your Encore shoots the Powerbelts better than mine. It won`t. I`ve got a Rem. that shoots them quite well out to 100yds. Maybe one of yours will. This is a good time to remind everyone that you should NEVER put powder in a bp rifle out of can/powder flask in the field or at the range. Just to dangerous in to many ways. Pour powder from can into a measurer then into the barrel keeping barrel away from face.
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November 1, 2009, 01:50 AM | #11 |
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My suggestion would be to load the tighter sabot for the 1st shot and then load a Powerbelt for subsequent follow up shots once the barrel is dirty and when hunting out in the field.
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November 2, 2009, 10:31 AM | #12 |
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arcticap-then do you feel the sabot with the full plastic is more accurate then the powerbelt? Is the reason the powerbelt is easier to load on subsequent shots is because it doesn't fit as tight?thanks
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November 2, 2009, 11:58 AM | #13 | ||
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Quote:
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Not only can that affect accuracy but so do bore dimensions and how fouled the barrel is etc... Sabots can have a different impact for the very first shot from a cold, clean barrel too, but testing will determine if that will happen with your rifle or not. But if the first shot from a clean barrel is consistent, then no matter which bullet is chosen that's what counts the most. Then which ever bullet is chosen for the follow up shot can be based on easier and quicker reloading in the event that becomes important. If PowerBelts work best for both 1st & 2nd shots from your rifle then use them with confidence. The Platinums are supposed to be very effective, but if you have any doubts then use whatever gives the best chance for an accurate first shot & harvest at the most likely distance that you'll be hunting at. I load my rifle with a sabot at home prior to going hunting so loading difficulty and time aren't an issue. Last edited by arcticap; November 2, 2009 at 11:50 PM. |
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November 2, 2009, 03:47 PM | #14 |
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Another note I`ve found with Powerbelts. Watch the powder charge you use with them. 100gr. should be ok but in my Rem. anything over about 110grns. accuracy failed. Upon retrieving the skirts, I found they were deformed differently then the 90-100grns. I had earlier shot. Again I couldn`t get the Powerbelts to shoot with any consistancy at all using many various charges out of my Encore. On the other hand, a friend of mine can`t shoot Powerbelts out of his Rem. All in the bore size. The dimensions of your bore may be that your rifle likes them. Please post your results if you try.
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November 2, 2009, 10:10 PM | #15 |
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Thanks for your help and I will post results after I get back from a little fishing trip .My reason for doing all this,I've been the best rifle shot in our camp,usually clean one-shot kills.I went almost exclusively to muzzleloading about 10 yrs ago and my shooting went to hell.I almost always shoot just over the back unless I aim for the belly,and that's after sighting in 2" high at a hundred.I got so disgusted after missing 2 nice bucks one year with my Ruger 77/50, I went to the nearest town and bought a TC Triumph so I could use 3 pellets(I lied Shortwave,I thought Encore for some reason)but I still miss except on a rest at the range and its driving me crazy.I can't stand to shoot an animal and not take him out quickly,but I'm gonna keep trying till I get it figured out, cause I truly love muzzleload season.It's the best time of the whole year.
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November 3, 2009, 04:06 PM | #16 | |
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November 3, 2009, 05:02 PM | #17 |
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Shortwave-You seem so sure of better accuracy with powder,I'm gonna give it a try,does that mean I need a scale?I'm a little concerned about powder getting past the sabot in the speed loader too.I don't know if you've seen my other thread on cutting a pellet,but I put a 50 grain pellet in my 3-jaw chuck(I have a small lathe)with a little over half sticking out,turned the lathe on slow,took a hacksaw and didn't do much more than score it.The pellet separated beautifully.I've got 6 halves to try.My Ruger calls for 120 grains max and I'm after maximum energy,trajectory and of course accuracy so I'm going to try both the Ruger and the Triumph and see what happens.
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November 3, 2009, 05:46 PM | #18 |
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Lara: I loved your work in Dr. Zhivago.
You were the most beautiful blonde Russian girl in the whole story. |
November 3, 2009, 08:04 PM | #19 | ||
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November 3, 2009, 08:26 PM | #20 |
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Simon-I joined this forum for friendship and sharing knowledge with people who have a common interest.If the cost of that is ridicule for asking questions, I'm in the wrong place.
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November 4, 2009, 10:20 AM | #21 | |
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Be Safe !!! |
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November 4, 2009, 07:06 PM | #22 |
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Lara, relax,from judging Simons many previous posts, I`d say he`s just funnin with ya. Nothing serious. He may still be a little upset cause his brother Ken drank up all the beer and got lazy on him at the hog roast he posted about on the Hunt forum. Anyway, what boolit and load are you gonna shoot?
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November 5, 2009, 01:34 PM | #23 |
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I appreciate your kind concerns and I can fun with the best of them if I know thats what it is.my apoligys?You guys have given me a lot to think about. I've still got 3/4 can of powder,probably 10 years old,2 cans of american powder sticks I got on sale 2 yrs.ago and various boolits and sabots. I found my old brass powder measure so I just need to head to the range and start.Right now though,I'm headed to Lake Mead with the wife and pontoon boat for some striper and largemouth fishing.I didn't get to go muzzleloading this year because of some medical problems,I'm still mad about that,but if I can accomplish something at the range,that'll soothe me while I get ready for next year.Thanks again for your helps,I have a better Idea now of what I can and can't do,and I'll be leanin on you again.
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November 5, 2009, 05:27 PM | #24 |
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I won`t be feeling sorry for you while your out there catching stripers and largemouth and the rest of us are working. Catch alot and have a great trip. Don`t be a stranger!
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