The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 26, 2012, 10:56 AM   #1
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,638
Would this be considered to be a real firearm?

Yesterday evening I was at my favorite watering hole,,,
I was chatting with an acquaintance about our first firearms.

I told him my first firearm was a muzzle loading rifle ala Davy Crockett,,,
This would have been around 1955-56

You stuffed a cork ball down the barrel with the ramrod,,,
Then you raised the "frizzen" and placed one paper cap under it,,,
After cocking the hammer you pulled the trigger which hit the frizzen igniting the cap.

There was a small hole going into the barrel,,,
The force of the cap sent the cork ball across our living room,,,
The Davy Crockett set came with a coonskin cap, a cork firing pistol, and a plastic knife with sheath.

In 1966-67 I went to Six Flags Over Texas,,,
I purchased a key-chain with a small pirate pistol,,,
It came with three plastic bullets and used "Greenie Stickem Caps".

That pistol worked the same way,,,
Put a cap over the touch hole to propel the bullet.

We were both discussing whether these toys would/could be called a firearm or not,,,
My point was that an explosive charge propelled the bullet from the gun,,,
That in and of itself would/could class it as an actual firearm.

As tight as the BATF makes their interpretations these days,,,
How do you think they would rule on this?

Aarond

.
__________________
Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat.
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 12:11 PM   #2
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,591
I'm guessing they'd want a sample to spend a few thousand dollars on testing before saying it was a firearm.

Snarkiness aside, I would side on the idea that since it's an explosive propelling a projectile it would be considered a firearm.

On the more complex side, could a powder charge be ignited with the cap as a primer or is the ball fired by gases that are not hot enough to ignite powder? That would be my suspicion if they would not be considered firearms. Paintball guns are sold without a 4473 and they use pressurized gas to propel a projectile. Some air-soft guns do as well.
__________________
- Jon
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429
WeedWacker is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 03:41 PM   #3
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,400
They're muzzle loaders.

Plus, the ATF's own definition includes:
"Note: This definition does not apply to items such as toy guns, cap guns, bb guns, pellet guns, and Class C common fireworks."
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 10:00 PM   #4
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
At the federal level, I don't see any problem. The BATFE is concerned with things that fire projectiles through the energy of an explosive, and whether it does so with a fixed cartridge.

While such a thing fires a projectile through the use of an explosive, it doesn't make use of a fixed cartridge, so it should be the same as a muzzleloader.

You probably wouldn't want to sell such a thing to kids these days, though.

State and local laws would be where the real issue lies.
kozak6 is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 08:35 AM   #5
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,254
In NJ you'd probably go to jail. You have to apply for a permit to buy a bb pistol here. Oh, and slingshots are illegal
NJgunowner is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 04:05 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
Quote:
My point was that an explosive charge propelled the bullet from the gun,,,
That in and of itself would/could class it as an actual firearm.

As tight as the BATF makes their interpretations these days,,,
How do you think they would rule on this?
Are they being sold today? The answer to that may hold a clue to the answer to your question ...
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05559 seconds with 10 queries