Bear Protection/safety

[telcomfaust]

Hello


One of my buddy's just bought some land and a camp in Upstate Maine. There are bears around and the previous owner used to Bait and hunt bears on the property. We were told anytime we are out on the property to have a gun with us.

My question what is a good defense for bears? If keeping your distance does not work or not possible.

Is a .40 enough?

do those sprays work?

Thanks in advance

Greg

[Art Eatman]

Just personal opinion, but I think I would use something with no less penetration and energy than a .357 maggie. From everything I've ever read, a hard-cast heavy bullet with a large meplat would be the ammo of choice.

[Carne Frio]

Bear sprays work. 12 g Brennekes work, too. 357 magnum is
kind of light for bears; 45LC and 44 mag are better. Have fun
up there !

[doofus47]

I use a .40 with alternating jhp and flatheads here in Colorado. My buddy from Montana uses the same. He carried a .357 in Montana.

Since you are probably not the primary prey of a black bear in Maine (as opposed to Montana Grizzlies or Alaskan Browns when everything smaller is potential prey), I think that bear spray would be enough to deter them if you saw them first and they were getting curious.

Oh, and don't carry a lamb chop in your back pocket....

[mikejonestkd]

Black bears are fairly large animals, but in no way are they as aggressive as browns or polar bears. I've seen dozens over the years in the mountains of NY and each and everyone of them was headed away from me at a high rate of speed...IIRC there has been only one person killed by a black bear in NYS in the last century, so they are not intentionally coming after people everyday like some internet commandos would have you believe.

Just to be safe, visit www.udap.com and buy some spray, it works very well to stop a bear, and it does so quicker than a handgun. It also works wonders on wild dogs and coyotes in the woods too..

[Alaska444]

There may have only been one fatality in NYS in a hundred years, but it was only 8 years ago that this happened. An infant on his back porch was snatched away by a predatory black bear in front of his mother. The issue boils down to changing bear behaviour because of habitat encroachment and increasing populations of bears at the same time. Habituated bears are becoming more common and those that simply run away may not be what we encounter as this becomes more prevalent. There are some bear experts warning of changes in bear behaviour becuase of these issues.

http://www.ejmagazine.com/2005b/pdfs/bears.pdf

Pepper spray may not work as well for black bears as grizzly and they can be quite large, up to 800 pounds in some areas. Call me an internet commando if you wish, but for me, I will have at least a .44 mag by my side and not go alone. It is perhaps a very small risk but so is the risk of ever needing to use a CCW. Yet many of us feel quite naked without our CCW. The point comes down to being prepared for the unexpected and perhaps even rare chance that anything could happen. Wishing you had prepared at that time won't help.

[Teirst]

for a firearm personally I would rather have a marlin 45/70. If a pistol is required a 10mm is also a good choice depending on what you shoot better.

Bear spray can be extremely effective. The only problem is if you are in a windy area the spray can be either impossible to use or end up hitting you.

[mikejonestkd]

I agree with your post alaska, but have one question on a statement:

Pepper spray may not work as well for black bears as grizzly and they can be quite large, up to 800 pounds in some areas.

What makes a black bear so much tougher to deter with spray than a grizzly?

Professional fishing and hunting guides in bear country seem to carry spray all the time on the TV shows...so it must work...

To the OP, if you carry a large caliber revolver loaded with heavy for caliber hardcast bullets and train with it under pressure then you should be fine. Bear spray is still a viable option though, and it is what I always bring with me in the Adironkacks.

[Jimmy10mm]

A S&W 44 mag with a 4" or lesser bbl is cheap insurance if you ever need it and fun to shoot in any case.

[NWPilgrim]

There are several things you can do. I carry spray in bear country but also realize that wind could render it less effective. Black bears are generally 150-350 lbs.

Having another person with you greatly increases your chances of deterrence and survival if attacked (one can shoot while the other is attacked, and the healthiest can go for aid). If you have kids around then it becomes far more important then if just you and a buddy are out fishing or hiking.

I have heard friends say when hunting black bear that one soaked up four .308 hits to the chest before stopping, another hunts them easily with a .30-30, and others with .44 mag revolvers.

A long arm such as a 12 ga with slugs, a .30-30 or similar handy carbine, or just about any deer rifle loaded with good bullets would be good protection. In handguns the .44 would be best, but almost any self defense handgun is a heck of a lot better than nothing. Along with bear spray I carry my Glock 23 in .40 with DoubleTap 200gr. ammo when in likely bear areas hiking (Pacific NW). I would carry a .44 if I still had one.

[Mainah]

A guide was attacked not too long ago while he was hunting with dogs, and that was the first bear attack that I can remember in my 25 years here. It just doesn't happen that much.

A more realistic danger is driving into a Moose, especially at night. That kills about half a dozen people per year.

[Alaska444]

I agree with your post alaska, but have one question on a statement:
Quote:
Pepper spray may not work as well for black bears as grizzly and they can be quite large, up to 800 pounds in some areas.
What makes a black bear so much tougher to deter with spray than a grizzly?

Professional fishing and hunting guides in bear country seem to carry spray all the time on the TV shows...so it must work...

To the OP, if you carry a large caliber revolver loaded with heavy for caliber hardcast bullets and train with it under pressure then you should be fine. Bear spray is still a viable option though, and it is what I always bring with me in the Adironkacks.

Dear mikejonestkd, not sure why there may be a difference, but in a couple of the bear books I have read, yup, I've read them too, James Gary Shelton had several accounts of it failing with a black bear, or, more commonly, the bear simply coming back over and over again until the spray is gone. I have heard similar reports from other sources that it works best against grizzly. Not sure why that might be true, but it does at times work with blacks, just not as consistently as grizzly from what I have heard.

[Art Eatman]

Bears, like deer, are apparently dyslexic and thus do not read all that is written about their behavior. We thus must play the odds in dealing with them.

Wildlife "experts" have claimed that black bears are more likely to attack for food, and less than as a bluff for territorial domination--particularly as compared to the grizzly or the Alaskan brownies. (Omitting the issue of a mother bear with cubs.)

While it's common that a black bear will run away from an encounter with a human, you must be careful about the Dyslexic Dude.

[JerryM]

If I were carrying a handgun for bear protection I would much rather have the .357 than a .40. If I were to buy one specifically for bear protection it would probably be a .44 Mag, but .45 LC or .44 Spl with good loads would be OK.

A 12 ga with slugs would be much better, but may not be something you would want to carry all the time.

Regards,
Jerry

[TheGoldenState]

Better than nothing!

IF it were me, Bear Spray and .44 mag minimum, you see because bears scare me

[turbotype87]

If it was me walking around in Maine, I wouldn't be there with anything less than a .44 magnum. Anything less in my opinion you maybe in trouble.

[Irish B]

I'm starting to feel the best bear defense may be a pet tiger. Sprays work amazing. Unless you mess up and hold them backwards. Then you've seasoned his meal for him. A .40 would be a good close range bear defense but i'd worry about penetration with that gun. People (that don't live in bear country) have this idea in their heads that all bears are out to kill all people and will take down a human at any possible chance. Bears are very rarely aggressive. I doubt you will ever need to use self defensive against these bears if you play it smart and keep your food and trash out of reach. These bears may be nervous though if there is a history of baiting and killing in your area. On a serious tiger note though, I have a friend who is a vet at the local zoo and got me some tiger scat to scatter around the property. Is supposed to ward off lions and bears. Worked like a charm. Local zoo's will normally sell lion and tiger scat for that reason so it might be worth looking into.

[kaylorinhi]

Use that 835 of yours with a short handy barrel, a decent suspension sling and those Brennekes or other slugs. Maybe an Electronic Dot sight?

Never killed one or even know anyone who has but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night and a 12g is enough for instant incapacitation on a person who is chemically pain-free it will work with proper shot placement!

I am also aware that a .22 short will cause the same if used properly but you well know what I mean if you have thought enough about this and know enough to type that.

[Irish B]

People need to take some time to learn bear anatomy too. Some local cops around here tried to put a giant bear down that had been hit. The bear to 11 rounds to the head with a 9mm and 4 rounds with a 12 gauge slug before an officer who actually hunted came along and put one (slug) shot behind the shoulder to actually kill it. People think a 12 gauge with slugs is instant bear remover but I bet you there are a lot of bears out there like that walking around with slug scars on their heads. Besides all slugs are not created equal. A 1100 fps 2 3/4" double shot slug is very different than a 3 1/2" 2000 fps slug. Know your target and choose appropriately. On that note you don't want to load your 12 gauge all with giant 3.5" slugs to protect you against BG's. You'd blow a hole completely through him, out your wall, and into your neighbors house down the street.

[Nnobby45]

Bear sprays work. 12 g Brennekes work, too. 357 magnum is
kind of light for bears; 45LC and 44 mag are better. Have fun
up there !

The pistol calibers mentioned could save your life in an emergency, but a shotgun with sling wouldn't be too much trouble for me if I was in a place where bears would be congregating from miles around, fully expecting to be fed as usual.

Any slug would be good for black bears in the 300 lb. range.

The deep penetrating, bone breaking Brenneke slug would be a good choice for any N. American carnivore that might want to eat you for breakfast. I'm talking for close range defensive use.

I might save the pistol for insurance in places where bear encounters might be few and by chance.

Is the .40 cal. enough? Not for me, though bears have been killed with it. In one case, a Grizzly that the officer shot in the head.

[HunterT]

Personally I suggest a 12 gauge with slugs. I carry one for Grizzlies.

[grubbylabs]

I carry a Smith and Wesson 329 pd, it is a scandium framed 44 mag. I have loaded some Speer 270 grain JSP. You should also be concerned about Moose just as much or more so than a bear. They usually fear nothing and a cow with a calf is a force to be reckoned with. Like was said before I would carry at least the 44 and the spray.

At first I would consider a never going any where without a second person, one of you carry lethal force and the other a shot gun with bean bags or rubber bullets and spray. If they won't leave you alone after that then you have lethal force that can be used.

But never forget about the Moose, my sister in law, while riding a snow mobile almost had a real problem with one until my brother in law T-boned it with his snow mobile. After that she left but it took some serous convincing.

[Semper Fi 73-76]

Any issues with a Taurus M444 ultralite Mag. Something I can stick in my pocket easily and sleep with too.
Had a nosy Grizz in camp last year. Made me start thinking about carrying something in the future.
When I came out of the woods I learned of the attack at Soda Butte that sealed it for me.
I'm sold on a 44 mag, now I just need to figure out what to buy. I know you folks probably get this a lot so I won't ask. I'll just keep reading and nosing around but if you want to hit me up with suggestions I would consider them all. So far I've only fired two different S&W's. I've had a Taurus 425 tracker reccomended, but so far I'm still looking. I've got time til next years wilderness treks.

Jeff

[Alaska444]

I am going to go with the Ruger Super Redhawk since it can take the high powered rounds without a problem. Some of the other .44 magnums are limited in how far you can push the high powered .44 rounds. Secondly, it weighs 53 oz which helps with recoil. Just my take on the issue.

[grubbylabs]

Well I mostly archery hunt so I do lots of Hiking and weight is an issue for me, so I pack the Smith and Wesson 329 PD it is a scandium framed revolver and weighs in at a nice 26 Oz empty.