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Old December 10, 2011, 10:05 PM   #26
Mike Irwin
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"Why is his path of travel to a speaking engagement more important than their right to protest it?"

Hum...

I never for a moment stopped to consider, by standing away from the door to conduct their protest, that the protestors were muzzled, stripped of their First Amendment rights, and somehow delivered into the hands of a repressive government.

I wanted to see Meese's speech. What gave those protestors the right to deny me MY First Amendment rights of peaceable assembly by blocking my access to the auditorium?

Why is their First Amendment right suddenly more important my First Amendment right?

Answer, it's not.

No right is absolute, and when your exercise of your rights begin to interfere with the free exercise of my rights, your rights can be legitimately restricted or narrowed.

A perfect example of this balancing act is the blocking of abortion clinics. Courts have consistently ruled that anti-abortion protestors do NOT have the right to block the entrance to a clinic, and that they can be restricted in how close they can come to the clinic entrance.

Please note that this will NOT become a debate about abortion, which is a topic that is not permitted at TFL. Any attempt to do so will result in the thread being shut down.
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Old December 11, 2011, 05:12 AM   #27
Dr. Strangelove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itc444
As a young EOD officer I was assigned to VIP support for 9 months. The SS do about what they like.

When Bill Clinton returned to AR after winning his first term he was staying in the Govenor's Mansion in Little Rock. The Mansion is in an area of old stately homes.

The SS did not know about the opening day of gun deer season. Early one Saturday morning about a hundred people opened their doors and started loading deer rifles, shotguns and an assortment of other firearms, including one Maxum water cooled machine gun into their pick ups.

Needless to say the SS detail soiled their pants and had all kinds of fits until a Sleepy President Elect told them to cool it. "It's opening day of deer season." I don't think he ever stayed in the Mansion again.
That's hilarious, and if true, makes me respect Clinton a whole lot more.
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Old December 11, 2011, 06:51 AM   #28
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What in the holy hell is someone going to hunt with a Maxim Machine Gun?

Herds of deer?
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Old December 11, 2011, 07:44 PM   #29
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True enough, I was really tired last night and not thinking straight for various reasons.
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Old December 11, 2011, 11:03 PM   #30
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In reply to Strangelove and the other comenter on the Machine Gun.

It is Arkansas.

I personnaly know the guy with the Machine gun. He was sober when he told the story.

I confirmed the story with two ADPS troopers. One of the troopers was on the security detail at the time. I admit that they were unaware of the Machine Gun.

Under Bill Clinton a woman in Chicago was arrested and held for two days for displaying a sign "Clinton Sucks". No action was ever taken against the SS for their actions.
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Old December 12, 2011, 08:42 PM   #31
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correct me if I'm wrong... but as far as I can tell, the president can not be arrested by anyone or any law enforcement organization while in office... the only folks who can do anything to him is the congress after he or she is impeached. Seems like that is in the constitution somewhere.
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Old December 12, 2011, 08:48 PM   #32
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The President can be arrested by your local town cop or any other law enforcement officer in his jurisdiction. The issue is prosecution.

Of course Barney would have a heck of a time getting past the praetorian guard to arrest him.
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Old December 13, 2011, 07:54 AM   #33
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Maybe Barney could... but I don't think he or she can be charged or prosecuted at least until they are out of office.
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Old December 13, 2011, 08:15 AM   #34
Mike Irwin
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"the president can not be arrested by anyone or any law enforcement organization while in office"

That is, as I understand it, incorrect.

The nature of the crime would have to come into consideration but, during the Clinton mess, I believe that the Supreme Court ruled that the president, by virtue of his office, is not exempt from the law. I think that ruling applied specifically to whether or not he could be forced to testify in front of a Grand Jury in a civil proceeding (he had to testify), but I think the ruling would have broader application.

There are claims of presidential immunity that have been made over the years on different matters, but the Constitution says nothing about a president being immune from prosecution in a blanket fashion. It has long been held, though, that the President enjoys a great deal of immunity for actions taken in the discharge of his duties.

But, there's not a lot of consensus among legal professionals and legal scholars.

I know that in the late 1860s or early 1870s US Grant was stopped and ticketed by a DC Police officer for speeding in his carriage.

Supposedly, upon finding out that the speeder was the president the officer balked at issuing the ticket, but Grant said (supposedly) "Do your duty, my good man."
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Old December 13, 2011, 11:14 AM   #35
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I have heard a rumor that at certain so-called town meetings, people from the other party were not allowed in the room. But after all, they tend to ask difficult questions, so I suppose it was understandable.
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Old December 13, 2011, 11:20 AM   #36
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BT, you mean questions about how to pay for desired services, or whether individual responsibility exists? Those can get difficult... But I suspect we should avoid veering off into the political... And that we shouldn't wax poetic about the slaughter of our adversaries.
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Old December 13, 2011, 11:29 AM   #37
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Close to a closing and infractions given already.

Stay on topic.

GEM
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Old December 13, 2011, 12:40 PM   #38
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Well, then, how about this? Do you get searched (for weapons) when you go into one of those town meetings? And any question can be difficult if the person asking the question is "unfriendly." Doesn't matter what the question is. But we could ask about how to pay for wars, which is not necessarily a desired service, for instance.
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Old December 13, 2011, 12:52 PM   #39
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Seems to me that would depend on where the town meeting is held. IIRC, NH has no ban on firearms at political gatherings. OTOH, courthouses in VA seem to have metal detectors. GA has detectors in some, but not all...

The question it raises is why should government employees be kept (theoretically) safer than / protected from the unwashed masses?

And if there are not detectors and armed security, why should we be required to give up our ability to defend ourselves? It is not as though bad things never happen on government property.
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Old December 13, 2011, 02:11 PM   #40
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Absolutley not.

No one, not the secerate service, FBI, State police, military, bla bla bla, and so on and so forth and take you weapon for any reason without probable cause that you have commited a crime with them, are going to commit a crime, or are illigally in posession of those weapons. Not only would that be an illigal seizure, but it would also be a violation of the 9th amendment too.

I am law enforcement, and I'd rather be told that I'm fired then take a weapon from a person that believe is within their rights and is posing no threat to others. At least then I could join the "come and get them" Club.
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Old December 13, 2011, 04:25 PM   #41
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In the light of recent events, it would seem that democratically elected public officials have good reason to fear the legions of the great unwashed. But in courthouses, at least around here, even the police have to check their guns.
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