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Old August 25, 2011, 05:08 PM   #1
justinpar
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Hard Cast Basics

Looking for some tricks/tips from some reloaders that have experience with hard cast bullets. I just bought 2,000 9mm and 1000 .357mag hard cast lead from Missouri Bullet company. I have yet to see any information on how hard/fast you can push hard cast. Powders I have are Power Pistol, Unique, and Bullseye. Can I push these as hard as plated?
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Old August 25, 2011, 05:33 PM   #2
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If conditions are right you can push cast bullets every bit as fast as jacketed, and under certain circumstances, even faster.

The first recommendation I'd make is to load up small amounts of the loads you want to test. You don't want to load up 500 rounds of somebody's highly recommended load only to find that in your particular gun it leads the barrel badly.

Regarding the powders you mentioned, I particularly like Power Pistol in .357 mag. I can't really comment on 9mm since I don't load for that one, but I would think PP would excel there as well.
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Old August 25, 2011, 05:45 PM   #3
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Power Pistol is almost used exclusively for my 9mm reloads. It works very well. I guess I am not looking for peoples "secret" formula just looking for tips because none of my manuals mention hard cast.
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Old August 25, 2011, 08:00 PM   #4
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Brinell 18 should be ok for mid-range & faster. Use powders with the slower burning rates. Bullseye is better for light target loads. Unique mid-range. In the 357 mag., Alliant 2400-13.0gr works well with 158gr. Unique for mid-range.
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Old August 25, 2011, 08:27 PM   #5
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You might want to bell the case mouth a little more for cast than jacketed to prevent the case from shaving the bullet.
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Old August 25, 2011, 09:34 PM   #6
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If you know the BHN rating for the bullets you're using, reference that against the pressure column. That will help you dial a usable load. Also--have you slugged your barrels first? There is a law among bullet casters---Fit is King. If the bullet doesn't fit correctly, you're in for some long hours scrubbing lead, no matter what pressure, velocity, etc.
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Old August 25, 2011, 10:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Looking for some tricks/tips from some reloaders that have experience with hard cast bullets.
First off, I hate the term "hard cast". It sounds too much like a solution to lead bullet loading. Like if you don't use a "hard cast" bullet, you will have problems loading lead.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Soft lead bullets that FIT THE BORE can be loaded and shot WITHOUT leading. No, I'm not talking about using a gas check either.

Even the excellent Missouri bullets can lead a bore if they don't FIT THE BORE. Even though they are "hard cast". The only way to know is to find out the dimension of your bore, by slugging it.

Loading lead is said to be part art. Knowing the sizes and knowing the pressures your load is putting out.

As far as where to find data, get the new Lyman cast bullet manual. The bullets will NOT be exact matches, but you will have a place to start. Another source is the lee manual.
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Old August 25, 2011, 11:17 PM   #8
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As Snuffy said, Fit is King. The only thing I ever load with a bhn over 12 is for rifles. You can take a properly fit slug of 12 bhn to pretty much any velocity the .357mag (and probably even .44mag) handle without significant (or any) leading without a gas check. For a hunting round, I like a softer lead with a gas check so you can get good velocity, good penetration, and good expansion without loss of bullet weight. The quality of lube should also be considered as it plays a role in keeping the leading down.
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Old August 26, 2011, 08:19 AM   #9
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Justinpar is buying his bullets, so the standard diameter bullet will have to work or not. If the 9mm has a .358" groove diameter & trys to shoot a .356" cast, its not going to work. Very true what is said above about fit.
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Old August 26, 2011, 12:17 PM   #10
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Fit is king - Snuffy nailed it. For hard bullets, you want to push them fast, light loads might lead whereas heavier loads might not. You'll just have to try, use power pistol from your selection. Check Lyman manual for loads.
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Old August 26, 2011, 09:40 PM   #11
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Yup, FIT is what you want. AND, the rest of the problem is that BE is fast for low-velocity ammo, and PP and Unique are mid-range for middle of the road velocities.
You can have fun with them at the upper pressure ranges. You MAY run into leading there, though.
When you load up with H110, A2400, WW296, or the new Alliant Sphericals, you'll be less-likely to lead up.
Have fun'
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Old August 26, 2011, 09:50 PM   #12
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Straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php

Call Brad if you have questions. He knows how fast you can--and cannot--run his bullets.
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Old September 5, 2011, 09:06 AM   #13
justinpar
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First Test Load Shot.... Got leading

Well I have some more load testing to do. I shot 10 rds and experienced leading. The specs on the rounds were. 6.0gr of Powder Pistol-- 1.10 OAL-- WSP primers-- .356 LRN Missouri Bullet Company bullets.
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Old September 5, 2011, 09:46 AM   #14
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If your magazine will accommodate the necessary length, try headspacing on the bullet. It can cut leading as well as increase accuracy substantially (see third from left illustration below; the barrel is a 1911 with .45 ACP, but the principle is the same for other designs: use your barrel as the gauge).

You can also supplement lubrication by a roll in some Lee Liquid Alox that's been diluted with about 10% mineral spirits.

Attached Images
File Type: gif .45 Seating Possibilities x800.gif (46.2 KB, 979 views)
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Old September 5, 2011, 11:45 AM   #15
justinpar
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at 1.100" OAL my bullet fit looks like the second picture. I'll try increasing the OAL to see what I get. I am also shooting this out of a Ruger SR9
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Old September 5, 2011, 02:37 PM   #16
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What weight bullet?
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Old September 5, 2011, 03:08 PM   #17
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Even if they fit perfectly, if you drive them fast enough you are going to get leading.

Ever looked through a bore-scope at a typical bore?

They are NOT that smooth and polished.

Even the best of them.
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Old September 5, 2011, 05:29 PM   #18
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They are 115gr Missouri Bullet Company LRN.
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:26 AM   #19
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Reduce your powder charge a little. May help leading. Not sure how light you could go with Power Pistol and 115 gr bullets. Steve's pages shows a low of 4.8grs. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm To light an action may not work, or bullet gets lodged in the barrel.
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Old September 7, 2011, 12:06 AM   #20
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You can push them just as hard as you want. BUT, to keep from leading the bore, they have to be sized right.
I dont know what dia they are, but if the 9mm are .356, your probly going to lead the barrel and not get that good of accuracy. They probly need to be .357 or .358, but you might get lucky.

Ideally, you want to be about .002 over your bore dia. The hard cast bullets I've seen were good for around 30,000 psi if that helps you any. I'm still learning, but thats been my experience so far.
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
You can push them just as hard as you want
Even if they are sized perfectly. if you push them hard enough they WILL lead.

Even jacketed bullets leave some copper behind, and it is much harder than lead.

There is a real reason lead bullets in rifles are limited to lower velocities.

Hit 3,000 ft/s and you will be scrubbing lead for a while.
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Old September 7, 2011, 01:45 PM   #22
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Even if you size them properly, they will lead.
I would 100% agree with that about rifle bullets.

I was referring to pistol loads. In that case, I would disagree.
I can push my heat treated WW cast pistol bullets to the max with no leading whatsoever in any caliber.

I have not bought that brand (or any since I started casting several years ago), but my experiences with commercial cast bullets was far from great. When I started casting my own, a whole new non-barrel leading world opened up and I've been extremely hooked ever since.

I know if your bullet is too hard and your load too soft, you will get lead.
If your bullet is too soft and your load too hard, you will get lead. Theres a happy medium.

I have shot cast rifle bullets over 2850fps with no leading, but my grouping was going south so I didnt go higher.

Last edited by reloader28; September 7, 2011 at 02:01 PM.
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