.204 failure to fire

BLS700 · May 21, 2009, 02:56 PM

I just took my first batch of .204 handloads out in my Thompson Center Pro Hunter and I was fairly happy with what I got except for one thing. Several times I had to recock and pull the trigger to get the round to fire. Three rounds would not fire at all! I was using CCI BR4 primers. I've heard many times that CCI primers are harder and therefore more prone to this but it had never been a problem and they are all I use. Is it possibly that the firing pin is the issue? This never happened on a Federal Premium Factory Load. Anyone with a similar experience? I'm looking for a place to start to correct this and I'm thinking I should try Federal Match primers since they are supposed to be softer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated thanks.

a7mmnut · May 21, 2009, 03:19 PM

Benchrest and match means less but equal fire. Try a standard CCI and blast away. I have reloaded plenty of accurate .222's and .223's without resorting to "match" primers. Also, what's your case lube? Make sure everything is perfectly dry or they won't light off--even with Federal 215's

.

-7-

FrankenMauser · May 22, 2009, 12:08 AM

What powder were you using?
Is it possible the primers or powder were contaminated?

Other than the complete failure to fire, the multiple strike requirement usually means the primers weren't seated fully. The initial (sometimes, even, second) strike seats the primer, and the next detonates it.

Sport45 · May 22, 2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Is it possibly that the firing pin is the issue?

What did the primer look like after a couple of strikes? Did you inspect the firing pin?

kraigwy · May 22, 2009, 08:15 AM

get a case headspace gage and check to see if you arnt over sizing the brass. The 204 headspaces on the shoulder, if that shoulder is pushed back too far, the case goes too far in the chamber and the firing pin cant reach far enough to set it off.

BLS700 · May 23, 2009, 08:10 AM

the cases were definitely dry. I'm pretty obsessive about that. Primers seemed to be fully seated. I did not get a chance to check the firing pin. I started wondering if maybe I got some oil in there that got on the primers when I closed the rifle. I was using Varget for one set of loads and H335 for another and failures occurred in both loads. That leads me to believe its a primer issue or possibly head space. I will definitely check that now. So are standard primers going to be softer then?

steveno · May 23, 2009, 01:10 PM

try the same load except with fireformed cases. for the first shot on unfireformed cases the extractor is basically controlling headspace. when I first started loading the 7 TCU I had a lot of misfires with unfireformed cases & CCI primers. I started fireforming cases with either Federal or Remington and there wasn't anymore misfires when fireforming cases. after the fireforming the CCI primers worked just fine.

Horseman · May 23, 2009, 02:32 PM

I had the same problem on with the 204 and my Cooper. CCI BR4's just didn't like to fire all the time. I called CCI on it. He told me 90% of the time when they get that complaint it's because the primers aren't seated deep enough. And that's easy to do if you're not used to seating small rifle primers. Large rifle seem to seat easier IMO. He also told me a lot of folks use Federals in these problem guns since they're softer.

snuffy · May 23, 2009, 03:45 PM

Since this is an encore, it has some issues that a bolt or auto gun doesn't. One is you have to be darn sure you're sizing ENOUGH. Enough to allow the rifle to completely lock up. Not locking fully would make the hammer block possibly cushion the hammer blow on the firing pin. Also make sure the rimfire/centerfire selector is all the way over.

Quote:

Also, what's your case lube? Make sure everything is perfectly dry or they won't light off--even with Federal 215's.

WHY? Unless the primers are submerged in oil, they'll fire with a light residual coating of oil. It's nearly impossible to make a primer inert.

BLS700 · May 28, 2009, 09:55 AM

i really appreciate the info guys. I'm going to have to double check my seating on them. Also I'll check the length to make sure the rifle is closing completely. Next batch goes out today. Not only is it annoying when you have these issues but now with primers at a premium ( if you can find them at all) everyone I waste makes me a little more mad.

Horseman · May 28, 2009, 11:13 AM

I just read last night on a reloading forum they have stopped production of BR4 primers because of these issues and complaints. I believe the poster was owed a brick of replacement BR4's and CCI told him they will not make more for app. 8 months. Many benchrest shooters have gone to the CCI 400's instead of BR4's because the cup is a different hardness and there aren't as many of these issues. I think I read this on benchrest.com.

BLS700 · June 1, 2009, 07:30 PM

Thank you Horseman. You may have seriously just saved me 1000 rounds of wasted time and more cursing than any man should produce. I just went out again and again I had four failure to fires. And it is not: excess lube, seating depth, gun not closing or any other of the issues I checked previously. There is a possibility that there was moisture in the room where I had the primed cases (basement). Is there any possibility that moisture in the air could make them not fire like they have been? Some fire on the second or third strike. Anyone had that before?

May 21, 2009, 02:56 PM	#1
BLS700 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 229	.204 failure to fire I just took my first batch of .204 handloads out in my Thompson Center Pro Hunter and I was fairly happy with what I got except for one thing. Several times I had to recock and pull the trigger to get the round to fire. Three rounds would not fire at all! I was using CCI BR4 primers. I've heard many times that CCI primers are harder and therefore more prone to this but it had never been a problem and they are all I use. Is it possibly that the firing pin is the issue? This never happened on a Federal Premium Factory Load. Anyone with a similar experience? I'm looking for a place to start to correct this and I'm thinking I should try Federal Match primers since they are supposed to be softer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated thanks.

May 21, 2009, 03:19 PM	#2
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	Benchrest and match means less but equal fire. Try a standard CCI and blast away. I have reloaded plenty of accurate .222's and .223's without resorting to "match" primers. Also, what's your case lube? Make sure everything is perfectly dry or they won't light off--even with Federal 215's. -7-

May 22, 2009, 08:15 AM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	get a case headspace gage and check to see if you arnt over sizing the brass. The 204 headspaces on the shoulder, if that shoulder is pushed back too far, the case goes too far in the chamber and the firing pin cant reach far enough to set it off. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 22, 2009, 12:08 AM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	What powder were you using? Is it possible the primers or powder were contaminated? Other than the complete failure to fire, the multiple strike requirement usually means the primers weren't seated fully. The initial (sometimes, even, second) strike seats the primer, and the next detonates it.

May 23, 2009, 08:10 AM	#6
BLS700 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 229	the cases were definitely dry. I'm pretty obsessive about that. Primers seemed to be fully seated. I did not get a chance to check the firing pin. I started wondering if maybe I got some oil in there that got on the primers when I closed the rifle. I was using Varget for one set of loads and H335 for another and failures occurred in both loads. That leads me to believe its a primer issue or possibly head space. I will definitely check that now. So are standard primers going to be softer then?

May 23, 2009, 01:10 PM	#7
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	try the same load except with fireformed cases. for the first shot on unfireformed cases the extractor is basically controlling headspace. when I first started loading the 7 TCU I had a lot of misfires with unfireformed cases & CCI primers. I started fireforming cases with either Federal or Remington and there wasn't anymore misfires when fireforming cases. after the fireforming the CCI primers worked just fine.

May 23, 2009, 02:32 PM	#8
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	I had the same problem on with the 204 and my Cooper. CCI BR4's just didn't like to fire all the time. I called CCI on it. He told me 90% of the time when they get that complaint it's because the primers aren't seated deep enough. And that's easy to do if you're not used to seating small rifle primers. Large rifle seem to seat easier IMO. He also told me a lot of folks use Federals in these problem guns since they're softer.

May 28, 2009, 09:55 AM	#10
BLS700 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 229	i really appreciate the info guys. I'm going to have to double check my seating on them. Also I'll check the length to make sure the rifle is closing completely. Next batch goes out today. Not only is it annoying when you have these issues but now with primers at a premium ( if you can find them at all) everyone I waste makes me a little more mad.

May 28, 2009, 11:13 AM	#11
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	I just read last night on a reloading forum they have stopped production of BR4 primers because of these issues and complaints. I believe the poster was owed a brick of replacement BR4's and CCI told him they will not make more for app. 8 months. Many benchrest shooters have gone to the CCI 400's instead of BR4's because the cup is a different hardness and there aren't as many of these issues. I think I read this on benchrest.com.

June 1, 2009, 07:30 PM	#12
BLS700 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 229	Thank you Horseman. You may have seriously just saved me 1000 rounds of wasted time and more cursing than any man should produce. I just went out again and again I had four failure to fires. And it is not: excess lube, seating depth, gun not closing or any other of the issues I checked previously. There is a possibility that there was moisture in the room where I had the primed cases (basement). Is there any possibility that moisture in the air could make them not fire like they have been? Some fire on the second or third strike. Anyone had that before?