Just a hint on WHAT IF

kraigwy · October 9, 2008, 05:28 PM

I dont mean to be critical. Nor do I claim to know it all or know anything for sure. But I have set through several court cases, civil and criminal. I pretty sure, in a civil law suite, lawyers will try every thing posible to discredit a person, Any thing to smoke up the issue.

So here comes my WHAT IF THEORY. It basicly follows the 3 S's. Shoot shovel and shut up.

I don't believe it telegraphing you punch. You can have all the what ifs you want, but dont publish it. Example what would I do if Joe Doe does X. Now I fill up the internet with my answer. If Johe Doe does X, I will do Y. So down the road, Joe Smith does X, and you do Y. Ok Joe Smith sues. His lawyer does a google on your name JOHN ADAMS -GUNS, and finds all your post, he sees your plan for doing Y. Now is your actions premeditated? Maybe, maybe not, but its more BS you have to defend in a civil suit.

To see what I mean, google "Your Name - Guns" and see how many if any hits.

In personal defense, I believe in STUDY, TRAIN, PRACTICE AND SHUT UP

Same with being involved in a shooting. Most laws say you can use deadly force to prevent X. So in court, either cornors inquest of civil trial, do You say I SHOT TO KILL or I SHOT TO WOUND. ECT. I think not, I shot to stop Mr BD from doing X. SHOT TO STOP.

There are several things one can do to lesson the effects of a civil suit. Dont talk a head of time. Dont talk after, (except for what is necessary to authorities). Don't use reloads in a defense weapons. Etc Etc.

Another related subject to think about. Gun Training. I've seen cases where XZY Firarms training said brand A pistol isnt worth the ammo to shoot it, He wont allow one in his school. So you go to school, you experince says Brand A is a great weapon so you carry it and have to use it in a SD situation. Here comes BGs lawyer. Does a google on XZY TRaining and finds a statement about the Brand A pistol, Now you have to answer for not following your training.

Get the point. Maybe I'm all wet, but the less you have to answer for in a civil suit, the less money you are gonna have to spend defending yourself. I cringe when I see this WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF POST.

Remember, contrary to what you see on TV, its not CSI that gets bad guys caught. Its police work, street cops talking to people. We all talk to much, it human nature. That is what gets bad guys caught. CSI is good for sewing up a case but Talking gets you there. Watch what you say on to anyone, especally the internet.

Just Ranting
JMHO

hogdogs · October 9, 2008, 05:43 PM

Okay... I did the google search... ZIP ZILCH ZERO NADA on my name + guns or otherwise. This is one reason I use a "handle" rather than my full name on any forum. Yes they can hook me hard if they subpoena or seize my puter or do the tech work to track me on the WWW. They will find alot of info but my attorney will be privvy to even more and much says I would never kill just to watch a man bleed and other info shows my arm shortly after I wrecked it in a car crash which is a handicap against me in a boxing match. Other sites have me discussing my many severe injuries to limbs and spine further reducing my "KNOWN" abilities which can validate my fear in a scenario situation.
Frankly I am not too terribly worried about what has been said by me on here or anywhere.
It is the things I do and say at the scene and immediately after that are more important.
Brent

HankB · October 9, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

We all talk to much, it human nature. That is what gets bad guys caught. CSI is good for sewing up a case but Talking gets you there. Watch what you say on to anyone, especally the internet.

A lawyer once told me that if instead of giving someone they'd arrested the Miranda warning, police were required to slap a piece of duct tape over they guy's mouth until his lawyer arrived, successful prosecutions would drop by 70 or 80 percent.

Spenser · October 13, 2008, 05:13 PM

As a prosecutor, I can tell you that it's probably not 70 or 80 percent.

More like 90%.....

Maybe not that bad, really. But if the case is going to trial, anything you've said can and will be used against you, in any format. Eyewitness testimony can be impeached or cast in a bad light. What a guy has said himself is almost irrefutable.

If it's a marginal shooting where there's some question as to whether or not it's justified, you can bet things like this will come into play, especially if there's a good investigator doing background. It's perfectly acceptable, especially if the Defendant testifies to his peaceable character, to use all the things out there that refute that he has a peaceable character, such as things he's said on the internet, or anything about his weapon that looks out of the ordinary or bloodthirsty (like grips on the gun that say, "Born to Kill", etc.) As long as it can be proven to have come from the Defendant, this sort of information will probably come into evidence.

Mannlicher · October 13, 2008, 06:22 PM

Everyone should have an attorney. Keeping one lined up in advance of anything untoward happening is just prudent these days.
If you have an attorney, and if he is worth spit, he should already have told you NEVER SAY ANYTHING TO THE POLICE until your attorney is present. Yeah thats an exaggeration, but saying the bare minimum, just yes or no answers, adding NOTHING to your short factual answer, will do more to help you out in a time of need than anything else.
Everything you say can, and most likely will, be used against you.

~ARMYSoldieR~ · October 13, 2008, 06:31 PM

thats one way to look at that I never really saw before. But I must admit no matter how careful you are in what you say if you get into just such a situation you already have to know how you will react or you probably won't be able to react at all. I do agree in the fact that you don't need to be blabing it to the rest of the world, but that fact still remains that with liars today... my bad i mean lawyers today facts can be twisted and bent to make it something you did't even say think or do. You know its a screwed up world when you get served because the man that rob your house got injured in the processaimation and paid for a good lawyer. Why don't we all just up a workmans comp plan for the scumbags

. Also we have polititicians so scared of guns and gun crimes that when a robber enters your house in the middle of the night they pretty have the run of the house they just can't come into your bedroom what kind of crap is that... but now I'm ranting and i apoligize for going off subject but now i feel a little better

Hemicuda · October 13, 2008, 07:16 PM

nothing came up for me... so i'm not worried... that, and my mom and sis are lawyers... and good ones...

teeroux · October 13, 2008, 07:31 PM

Post on TFL used against you in court?

Couldn't a person argure their miranda rights were violated by alowing statements made before being advised of their rights in said event?

Bogie · October 13, 2008, 07:36 PM

Guys, if you get into a situation, just STFU.

Look at this chick that's had her daughter "go missing."

She's not saying hardly a damn thing. And every time she -=does=- open her pie-hole, she makes things worse for herself.

kraigwy · October 14, 2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Couldn't a person argure their miranda rights were violated by alowing statements made before being advised of their rights in said event?

Miranda dosnt apply until you are a suspect. Certainly dosn't apply to statements made before the fact.

ATW525 · October 14, 2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Couldn't a person argure their miranda rights were violated by alowing statements made before being advised of their rights in said event?

The police are required to inform of your rights before asking you guilt-seeking questions when you're in police custody. Statements made in any other circumstances can generally be used freely against you.

That is not to say that you don't have your rights in other situations, just that the police aren't obligated to inform you of them.

October 9, 2008, 05:28 PM	#1
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Just a hint on WHAT IF I dont mean to be critical. Nor do I claim to know it all or know anything for sure. But I have set through several court cases, civil and criminal. I pretty sure, in a civil law suite, lawyers will try every thing posible to discredit a person, Any thing to smoke up the issue. So here comes my WHAT IF THEORY. It basicly follows the 3 S's. Shoot shovel and shut up. I don't believe it telegraphing you punch. You can have all the what ifs you want, but dont publish it. Example what would I do if Joe Doe does X. Now I fill up the internet with my answer. If Johe Doe does X, I will do Y. So down the road, Joe Smith does X, and you do Y. Ok Joe Smith sues. His lawyer does a google on your name JOHN ADAMS -GUNS, and finds all your post, he sees your plan for doing Y. Now is your actions premeditated? Maybe, maybe not, but its more BS you have to defend in a civil suit. To see what I mean, google "Your Name - Guns" and see how many if any hits. In personal defense, I believe in STUDY, TRAIN, PRACTICE AND SHUT UP Same with being involved in a shooting. Most laws say you can use deadly force to prevent X. So in court, either cornors inquest of civil trial, do You say I SHOT TO KILL or I SHOT TO WOUND. ECT. I think not, I shot to stop Mr BD from doing X. SHOT TO STOP. There are several things one can do to lesson the effects of a civil suit. Dont talk a head of time. Dont talk after, (except for what is necessary to authorities). Don't use reloads in a defense weapons. Etc Etc. Another related subject to think about. Gun Training. I've seen cases where XZY Firarms training said brand A pistol isnt worth the ammo to shoot it, He wont allow one in his school. So you go to school, you experince says Brand A is a great weapon so you carry it and have to use it in a SD situation. Here comes BGs lawyer. Does a google on XZY TRaining and finds a statement about the Brand A pistol, Now you have to answer for not following your training. Get the point. Maybe I'm all wet, but the less you have to answer for in a civil suit, the less money you are gonna have to spend defending yourself. I cringe when I see this WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF POST. Remember, contrary to what you see on TV, its not CSI that gets bad guys caught. Its police work, street cops talking to people. We all talk to much, it human nature. That is what gets bad guys caught. CSI is good for sewing up a case but Talking gets you there. Watch what you say on to anyone, especally the internet. Just Ranting JMHO __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 13, 2008, 06:22 PM	#5
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	Everyone should have an attorney. Keeping one lined up in advance of anything untoward happening is just prudent these days. If you have an attorney, and if he is worth spit, he should already have told you NEVER SAY ANYTHING TO THE POLICE until your attorney is present. Yeah thats an exaggeration, but saying the bare minimum, just yes or no answers, adding NOTHING to your short factual answer, will do more to help you out in a time of need than anything else. Everything you say can, and most likely will, be used against you. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

October 13, 2008, 06:31 PM	#6
~ARMYSoldieR~ Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: bumf***, ID Posts: 23	new light thats one way to look at that I never really saw before. But I must admit no matter how careful you are in what you say if you get into just such a situation you already have to know how you will react or you probably won't be able to react at all. I do agree in the fact that you don't need to be blabing it to the rest of the world, but that fact still remains that with liars today... my bad i mean lawyers today facts can be twisted and bent to make it something you did't even say think or do. You know its a screwed up world when you get served because the man that rob your house got injured in the processaimation and paid for a good lawyer. Why don't we all just up a workmans comp plan for the scumbags . Also we have polititicians so scared of guns and gun crimes that when a robber enters your house in the middle of the night they pretty have the run of the house they just can't come into your bedroom what kind of crap is that... but now I'm ranting and i apoligize for going off subject but now i feel a little better __________________ Army Strong HOOAH Gun control means using both hands and hitting a running coyote at 300 yards and having him fold up like a napkin

October 13, 2008, 07:16 PM	#7
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	nothing came up for me... so i'm not worried... that, and my mom and sis are lawyers... and good ones... __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

October 13, 2008, 07:31 PM	#8
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	Sorry if this is legal or poli. but. Post on TFL used against you in court? Couldn't a person argure their miranda rights were violated by alowing statements made before being advised of their rights in said event?

October 9, 2008, 05:43 PM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Okay... I did the google search... ZIP ZILCH ZERO NADA on my name + guns or otherwise. This is one reason I use a "handle" rather than my full name on any forum. Yes they can hook me hard if they subpoena or seize my puter or do the tech work to track me on the WWW. They will find alot of info but my attorney will be privvy to even more and much says I would never kill just to watch a man bleed and other info shows my arm shortly after I wrecked it in a car crash which is a handicap against me in a boxing match. Other sites have me discussing my many severe injuries to limbs and spine further reducing my "KNOWN" abilities which can validate my fear in a scenario situation. Frankly I am not too terribly worried about what has been said by me on here or anywhere. It is the things I do and say at the scene and immediately after that are more important. Brent

October 13, 2008, 05:13 PM	#4
Spenser Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 408	As a prosecutor, I can tell you that it's probably not 70 or 80 percent. More like 90%..... Maybe not that bad, really. But if the case is going to trial, anything you've said can and will be used against you, in any format. Eyewitness testimony can be impeached or cast in a bad light. What a guy has said himself is almost irrefutable. If it's a marginal shooting where there's some question as to whether or not it's justified, you can bet things like this will come into play, especially if there's a good investigator doing background. It's perfectly acceptable, especially if the Defendant testifies to his peaceable character, to use all the things out there that refute that he has a peaceable character, such as things he's said on the internet, or anything about his weapon that looks out of the ordinary or bloodthirsty (like grips on the gun that say, "Born to Kill", etc.) As long as it can be proven to have come from the Defendant, this sort of information will probably come into evidence.

October 13, 2008, 07:36 PM	#9
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Guys, if you get into a situation, just STFU. Look at this chick that's had her daughter "go missing." She's not saying hardly a damn thing. And every time she -=does=- open her pie-hole, she makes things worse for herself. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!