Load Ettiquette

Krieger9 · March 10, 2010, 08:08 AM

I got railed by a member for this post for supposedly doing nothing more than digging for free load data and screwing the books companies.

I thought I'd been very carful to only make requests for honestly available information. Even of a high moral level...I thought.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=401033

Was this out of line? Just trying to be a contributing member and follow good practices of the community. Then 73-Captain let me have it.

Thanks

Brian Pfleuger · March 10, 2010, 08:14 AM

You didn't do anything that 50 other TFLers don't do every day.

Books are not the only source of load data.

Some people are grumpy. Ignore them.

If they get too nasty, report them to a moderator.

Sevens · March 10, 2010, 08:18 AM

I've gotten some interesting PM's from him in the past.
I think he sees things at a slightly different angle than many of us do some of the time. Doesn't bother me.

I think you are in good shape and I wouldn't worry much about it.

Jim243 · March 10, 2010, 08:24 AM

Looks like the moderator removed Capitain 73's reply to your post. No you did nothing wrong, there is a lot of good load information on the internet from the powder manufacturers, but even then they do not list ALL bullet powder combinations. I like to get two or three sets of information on each load before I decide what to use so I have 6 or seven books. I buy them when they are on sale. Since most of my loads use Hornady or Speer bullets I have both of their books, and buy Hodgdon's each year when their paperback comes out ($10.00).

Good luck and stay safe.
Jim

mjm · March 10, 2010, 08:24 AM

If you asked for data out of their books, you would be pushing an ethical envelope. You specifically asked for a website...information freely given away.

Your question was "Anybody familiar with Nosler's site can show me a link for their load data? I'm not sure what I'm missing but my understanding is they have a fairly comprehensive set of data for their products."

The gentleman made a mistake and should make it right.

CWPinSC · March 10, 2010, 08:44 AM

The only people in TFL who have the RIGHT to jump your case about anything is Bud or a Moderator. If they let it go, ignore the "Forum Police". Lots of people think their will is law. As mentioned, if the post it offensive or abusive, report it.

Krieger9 · March 10, 2010, 08:45 AM

Just a note to not spread ill will more.

He just lectured, didn't attack...at first.
I started any hostilities when I got angry over the accusations.

So thanks for the feeback, It's all good.

SL1 · March 10, 2010, 08:55 AM

Let's be realistic here. Bullet companies can't really expect you to purchase a $20-to-$40 manual just to try some of their bullets. But, they also spend a lot of time and $ putting together their reloading data manuals, and would not like them to be fully reproduced for everybody to get for free on the INTERNET. So, they don't seem to object to people like us giving out some specific pieces of their data to people who are interested in using their bullets for the first time. And, they will often do the same thing themselves in answer to a phone call or e-mail.

I try to do the same thing with the QuickLOAD program that I purchased. I will do SOME calculations for folks who are working their way up the learning curve. But I am not going to spend my time doing enough calculations to give somebody the full benefit of the program for free. I suspect that the publication of examples of what the program can (and can't) do on this and other forums has probably done more to sell copies of the program than the advertisements in magazines.

So, I don't agree that sharing data on this forum undermines the economic situation of any component manufacturer.

On the other hand, if it appears that somebody wants to just avoid getting ANY manuals by getting all of his load data from forums, I don't want to participate in that. That really isn't an economic or ethics issue, it is a safety issue. There is a LOT more to reloading than a recipe, and much of that is covered in good reloading manuals. I think everybody should start with at least two, and I don't want to help them to avoid doing that.

SL1

**Mal H** · March 10, 2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

Some people are grumpy. Ignore them.
If they get too nasty, report them to a moderator.

Very good advice. Since this thread isn't really about handloading, but more about personal interactions, I'll close it at this point.

Note - there was no post from the member in question in the linked thread, his words to the OP must have been in a PM or email.

March 10, 2010, 08:08 AM	#1
Krieger9 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Howell Michigan Posts: 130	Load Ettiquette I got railed by a member for this post for supposedly doing nothing more than digging for free load data and screwing the books companies. I thought I'd been very carful to only make requests for honestly available information. Even of a high moral level...I thought. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=401033 Was this out of line? Just trying to be a contributing member and follow good practices of the community. Then 73-Captain let me have it. Thanks

March 10, 2010, 08:14 AM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	You didn't do anything that 50 other TFLers don't do every day. Books are not the only source of load data. Some people are grumpy. Ignore them. If they get too nasty, report them to a moderator. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 10, 2010, 08:18 AM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've gotten some interesting PM's from him in the past. I think he sees things at a slightly different angle than many of us do some of the time. Doesn't bother me. I think you are in good shape and I wouldn't worry much about it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 10, 2010, 08:45 AM	#7
Krieger9 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Howell Michigan Posts: 130	Offensive or what not Just a note to not spread ill will more. He just lectured, didn't attack...at first. I started any hostilities when I got angry over the accusations. So thanks for the feeback, It's all good.

March 10, 2010, 08:24 AM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Looks like the moderator removed Capitain 73's reply to your post. No you did nothing wrong, there is a lot of good load information on the internet from the powder manufacturers, but even then they do not list ALL bullet powder combinations. I like to get two or three sets of information on each load before I decide what to use so I have 6 or seven books. I buy them when they are on sale. Since most of my loads use Hornady or Speer bullets I have both of their books, and buy Hodgdon's each year when their paperback comes out ($10.00). Good luck and stay safe. Jim

March 10, 2010, 08:24 AM	#5
mjm Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 84	If you asked for data out of their books, you would be pushing an ethical envelope. You specifically asked for a website...information freely given away. Your question was "Anybody familiar with Nosler's site can show me a link for their load data? I'm not sure what I'm missing but my understanding is they have a fairly comprehensive set of data for their products." The gentleman made a mistake and should make it right.

March 10, 2010, 08:44 AM	#6
CWPinSC Junior member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 863	The only people in TFL who have the RIGHT to jump your case about anything is Bud or a Moderator. If they let it go, ignore the "Forum Police". Lots of people think their will is law. As mentioned, if the post it offensive or abusive, report it.

March 10, 2010, 08:55 AM	#8
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Let's be realistic here. Bullet companies can't really expect you to purchase a $20-to-$40 manual just to try some of their bullets. But, they also spend a lot of time and $ putting together their reloading data manuals, and would not like them to be fully reproduced for everybody to get for free on the INTERNET. So, they don't seem to object to people like us giving out some specific pieces of their data to people who are interested in using their bullets for the first time. And, they will often do the same thing themselves in answer to a phone call or e-mail. I try to do the same thing with the QuickLOAD program that I purchased. I will do SOME calculations for folks who are working their way up the learning curve. But I am not going to spend my time doing enough calculations to give somebody the full benefit of the program for free. I suspect that the publication of examples of what the program can (and can't) do on this and other forums has probably done more to sell copies of the program than the advertisements in magazines. So, I don't agree that sharing data on this forum undermines the economic situation of any component manufacturer. On the other hand, if it appears that somebody wants to just avoid getting ANY manuals by getting all of his load data from forums, I don't want to participate in that. That really isn't an economic or ethics issue, it is a safety issue. There is a LOT more to reloading than a recipe, and much of that is covered in good reloading manuals. I think everybody should start with at least two, and I don't want to help them to avoid doing that. SL1