Your top DEFENSE shotgun: Rem 870, Rem 11/87, Win 1300Defender, Benelli M1???

[SLIM410]

None of the above.

http://www.thunder5.com

Click on the specifications and look.

[Kevan]

That weapon is not an option in quite a number of states because it qualifies as an illegal "sawed-off" shotgun. I've also seen the little double-barrel "snake eyes" .410 pistol. I'll stick with 12 gauge pump, thanks.

I don't particularly like the emotionalist-sensationalist marketing ploy of the company selling that pistol, either. "Be responsible! Don't kill your neighbor!" Yeah, but get rubbed out by some tweeker or dusthead you only pissed off with a thimblefull of birdshot.

[Bongos]

Mossberg 590A1 is my home defense choice

[SLIM410]

I know that if I have an intruder in my home, he will fall on the first shot of 00 Buckshot. If not, then the second shot, a .45LC should do the trick. After that there's a .410 slug, another .45LC, and a #2 shotshell.

I paid $275 used and absolutely love it for home defense.

[Bruce626]

Well, I got in on this poll late, so I had to vote for the only firearm I own... my Mossberg 500 12 ga. (I know, a one-gun wimp...)

Although, as I mentioned on another thread, I had the opportunity to use a Vang Comp'd 870 for the first time during the final COF in a two day tac shotgun course and shot very well with it with because it felt so natural.

Many replies above this one, Dave McC said

Work it to and fro a hundred times,

to get the Mossy tang-mounted safety to loosen up a bit... The issue is that unlike the nice, but not ambidextrous, 870 button safety, the Mossberg safety feels like a small, rough-backed alligator under your thumb. I probably cycled the safety 200 times this weekend and I think it is as smooth (even some extra lube) as it is going to get, but my thumb is a bit raw, nevertheless. My two-cycle experience with the 870 safety makes me think it is way easier unless you are a leftie.

[ZWolfgang]

Bruce... you too have an ultra stiff Mossberg tang safety switch? I think mine is loosening up a LITTLE bit... but man, this switch is very difficult to move most of the time... funny, because every once in a while it moves more easily. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...... will replacing the thumb piece make the switch any easier? The screw holding in the plastic piece is designed to only screw ON, a screwdriver trying to UNscrew it has no grip at all... what's with THAT?

[Dave McC]

Sorry about your thumb, Bruce, but I deny responsibility(G).

If I owned a 500 these days, I'd put on a metal safety button mach schnell, just because there's too much testimonial evidence about the plastic ones falling off, or otherwise glitching.

Note this doesn't happen with ALL 500s.

Also note I'm not Mossiebashing. They're good shotguns.

As for the 870, when I shoot sinistrally I rotate my firing hand as I mount the weapon and knock the safety off with my thumb, re-employing with my index finger. This is the mirror image of how I do it dextrally.

[Tom C.]

None of the above. There is a very good article that was in the IPSC magazine about combat competition shotguns. It is available on the Winchester website.
If I had to pick a new shotgun, I would strongly consider the new Winchester Super X2 Practical.
I still like my Remington Model 11. It has MMC aperature sights, and removable choke tubes as well as an extended mag tube. Shoots foster slugs into 2.5" at 50 yds. and seems to be extremely reliable, more than the current 11/87.

[Dave McC]

Tom, the Model 11 is one great shotgun. The downside's the advanced age and high mileage of many specimens.

The X2 is possibly the milepost for the next era of fighting shotguns. I expect developments in this area to be very interesting. Here's a few predictions....

First, the new "Serious" shotguns will be gas autos. Instead of adapting existing sporting arms, these will be purpose built fighters. Some may be built on the Kalishnikov gas sustem, like that Saiga. Others may use any number of designs that are already used in rifles and adaptable to the lower pressures and higher momentums of shotgun ballistics.

Second, modular trigger systems will be nigh universal. Why so? Because most of the parts that can and do break are in these. Field repair will consist of popping a new TG in and sending the old one back to the armorer.

Third, stocks will have some range of adjustment, maybe like the CAR-15 collapsable stock with intermediate positions. Some will also have some recoil reducing capability, like the Hogue, Precision Fit, etc. A rotatable pad will make the weapon suitable for use off either shoulder while still fitting the "Cup".

Fourth, sights will be some sort of red dot, holo,and so on.Probably the weapon will have an old fashioned bead for backup.

Fifth, an Uzi style grip safety will be used as a combat safety.Or possibly a squeeze cocker. Idea, to make the weapon safe but only an instant away from employment. A storage safety will be there for backup.

Sixth,forearms will have mounting points/rails for lights,NVDs,grenade launchers, scopes and so forth.

Seventh,a workable speed loader for faster reloads will be produced. It'll probably look something like the old Blakeslee thing for the Spencer carbine, ca 1860.

Eigthth, it'll probably be a 12 gauge. All that ammo choice off the shelf would make logistics so easy compared to R&D'ing a new, dedicated shell. However, research will produce new powders that will burn more completely in the bbl, thus reducing muzzle flash. And the velocity may be uppped a bit also, with new designs the old SAAMI limit of 13K PSI can be exceeded. How about 00 at 1800 FPS, with depleted uranium pellets?

Any ideas?....

[Dr.Rob]

870 all the way

... though I was at a gunshow a few weeks back and saw a BRAND NEW 11-87 in "tactical black" with the mag extension AND rifle sights for less than $300, I ALMOST bought it.

Thing is, I kinda like the look and feel of wood, and my "Sportsman 12 magnum" (pre-express budget model 870) is an awfully good shotgun, so I don't NEED to replace it. In fact, I'm thinking if I buy another shotgun its gonna be a double.

Still I kinda hope I don't see that 11-87 again when I have a pocket full of money.

And HEY... you forgot the Winchester 1897 Trench gun. If you missed him with 6 rounds of buckshot you could always bayonet the evildoer!

[Tom C.]

Dave
Fortunately, my Model 11 spent most of its life sitting around. Doesn't seem to have much wear. Did have to replace the barrel due to bulges in it.
Sounds like what you are describing is the new Benelli M4 which the Marine Corps recently adopted. It is a gas gun with MECGAR ghost ring sight, skeleton stock with what looks like a Picitany rail mounted on the receiver in front of the rear sight. There is a picture in the Dec. Guns on pg. 35.

[Dave McC]

Saw a blurb on American Shooter about the M4, Tom. It's a step in the right direction, but it's still an adapted civilian arm.

With the trend towards Urban warfare seen in recent times, a truly advanced combat shotgun's making sense.

Meanwhile, I'll stick with 870s.

[Tom C.]

The M4 is being issued in the Marine Corps. It is supposed to show up commercially this month, which probably means early next year. The services have first claim to them. I would like to see a good comparison article with the M-4, Winchester SX-2 Practical, Remington 11/87, 870 et.al. and see if any of them are as good as my Model 11.

[RCH]

Benelli M-3 for auto choice.

Benelli Nova for pump choice.

[Al Thompson]

Hi Tom C., welcome to TFL !

Here's a link on a write up that appeared in SWAT magazine:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hreadid=116176

[Tom C.]

I certainly missed the article in SWAT. I confess the stock doesn't look like something I would go for, but it is a gas gun to eliminate sensitivity of the recoil mechanism to additional weight of night sights, etc. Since the Marines did the developmental testing, I hope they were rigorous. I would like to see their report and what other guns they compared it to that resulted in its selection.
I know the Brits used the Browning Auto 5 in the Malay fight in the 50's and it seemed to work ok in pretty severe jungle conditions.

[NIGHTWATCH]

REM 870.

[MrMurphy]

I made my choice, and brought home a Benelli Nova SP 3 days ago (my birthday). 18.5" barrel, same LPA ghost ring sights as an on M1 Super 90 or the M1014, the little carrier-button so you can unload the chamber and swap a slug or buckshot while keeping the mag full.

Smooooooth pump action. Feels like an 870 after 5,000 rounds. Already owned an 870 HD and Mossberg 500 HD. It's got a sling on it, and soon, a SideSaddle and M3 light.

[Tom C.]

I spent the money and downloaded a pdf file of the July issue of SWAT with the article on the M4 Benelli. I don't see what the problem is. The stock sucks. OK. It is available to civilians with the normal stock and the pistol grip stock, both plastic. He doesn't like the light. OK. It is heavy. OK. Is the receiver steel or alloy? The rail is for night sights, etc., which weigh a ton and would probably rip the rib from an alloy receiver. The gun seems to work fine. He doesn't know what it does that others don't. I think the answer to that is that it works in conditions which lock up all the others. If any of the others worked in their defined adverse conditions, they would have been selected and they wouldn't have had to have Benelli develop this new gun. Am I missing something?
That said, I am not ready to switch from my Model 11, but I would like to see a comparison with the M4 Benelli and Winchester SX2 Practical among others.
All this about individual models is nice, but the dirty little secret is that shotguns have a limited range of capabilities. The FBI found that buckshot bounces off windshields nicely without penetrating. That said, within their nitch, they do fullfil their limited capabilities well. Just don't expect too much.

[Irish]

I'm with you Tom C. I would like to see a comparison of the M4 and SX2 Practical. I do like my M1 Super 90 thoug.

[NSO_w/_SIG]

We use Benelli M1 Super 90, at home all i can afford is and old 870 pump.

[stevelyn]

Strictly my personal preferences as all on the list make fine defensive guns.

Pumps: 1300 Defender. I happen to like the rotary locking bolt and lightning fast action.

Semi-autos: Benelli is king. I prefer what seems to be a more reliable recoil-operated action over the Remington's gas operated action.

[bobby1028]

Beretta 1201FP

Remington 870