New member, dillon 650 question

[ropegun2k]

I have been reloading 9mm on my dillon 1050 for a while now, and love it.

But I am looking into getting a separate setup for 223/556. I know I can not run a one stop shop (with really any press) if I plan on running a trimmer. So I was thinking about running 2 650s side by side, but I am having trouble finding the information I am looking for to see if this will work.

Here are my thoughts:
Press 1: (with an autodrive)
-resize/deprime
-swage
-prime
-trim

Press 2: (hand operated)
-powder drop
-bullet seat
-crimp

I realize I could get by with a smaller press. But the cost of a 650 with the case feeder included is comparable to let's say a 550 with an added case feeder.

Sorry if this has been brought up before, I did look before posting.

Thanks in advance.

[Unclenick]

Welcome to the forum. Please pop over to the introduction thread in the General forum to introduce yourself.

How about just buying a single-stage press to decap and resize, and a Giraud trimmer. Total cost is lower and the trimmer trims, chamfers and deburrs simultaneously, instead of just cutting square like the Dillon trimmer. This saves you doing those operations by hand to avoid shaving copper off bullets with the sharp edge of a case mouth (an accuracy issue). After trimming on the Giraud, just feed the trimmed cases to a a single 650 or 1050 without a sizing die in place.

Since it doesn't look like your budget is limited, the Forster Co-ax press would be a good choice for the single-stage press. It's what the Army Marksmanship Unit loads match ammunition on because of the exceptionally low cartridge runout it produces. You then have it available for loading special super accuracy long range match loads and for loading smaller volumes of test loads or different rifle calibers.

[jmorris]

You don't need another press just another tool head or setscrew/set collar style lock rings.

The expander in the size die (not set to further size) in station 2 of the 1050 and the expander in station 3 that is part of the backup rod for the swager are all I ever use after trimming with the Dillon trimmer and I don't have shaving problems.

The Giraud is nice but you can't size/deprime, swage and trim 1800 rounds an hour with one and you better have fingers of steel if you expect to go through a 5 gallon bucket in a sitting.

[ropegun2k]

Nick and Morris, thanks for the responses.

For whatever reason I thought the dillon trimmer chamfered and trimmed. It only makes sense to me that it would.

I have a single stage collecting dust. Running brass through a single stage followed by a giraud isn't acceptable to me in a savings vs time spent standpoint.

Morris, you sorta confirmed what I wanted to hear. I will either get 2 tool heads, or have side by side presses. I hate tinkering and readjusting. Once something I set, I like to leave it. I already spent a bunch of money at impactguns this month. If I try to wait until next month to go on another spending spree, it will give me time to decide between switching tool heads or not.

Thanks again.

[jmorris]

Morris, you sorta confirmed what I wanted to hear. I will either get 2 tool heads, or have side by side presses. I hate tinkering and readjusting. Once something I set, I like to leave it

With an additional tool head you won't have to adjust or tinker.

[Unclenick]

The way both the Giraud and Gracey trimmers work is by having a special shape carbide cutting tool that does the chamfering and deburring. The downside is you have to set up the radial position of that cutter so it meets the case mouth correctly for each case mouth diameter. The Dillon avoids the caliber specific adjustment by cutting flat. You can see advantages to both. I don't have the Dillon tool, but I've heard people say they feel it cuts cleanly enough that they don't need to chamfer and deburr. I can see how a clean cut could get you out of the deburring step, but something needs to be done about chamfering. The copper shaving thing is for real, and I've found plenty of commercial ammo which, if you look at it under a magnifier, has a fine copper ring around the inside edge of the mouth. The concern is unbalancing the bullet by making the jacket less uniform all around.

Because the Dillon powder measure is operated by the case mouth, it may be that you can get just enough dulling of the inside of the case mouth by the drop tube / operating rod on that measure. I used to run case mouths part way over a carbide expander to dull them, and that works fine, but does have the drawback of risking pulling case necks off axis.

Another possibility is that you fill the sizing die station in the second tool head with a Lyman M die. This will expand the case mouth to form a small step in it. This will slightly widen the inside of the case mouth so it doesn't make firm enough contact with the bullet to scrape it. A plus factor is that the step formed in the case mouth lets you set the bullet upright and square for seating, which reduces runout and that helps accuracy. The only downside, if you can call it that, is you have to adjust crimping just enough to iron the step back out. I don't find that difficult, though.

An even more positive way to remove the sharp edge is one board member Bart B described in a post, and that I tried and confirmed works really well. Most cases, even after chamfering are still a little sharp at the edges of the chamfer itself, and I've see that scrape moly plating clean off of bullets (used inertial bullet puller afterward and the sides of the bullet were clean as the proverbial whistle). The solution is to burnish the edges down. Bart's method is to chuck an EZ-Out in a drill and, running it at low speed, push the freshly cut case mouths over it. The backward thread of the EZ-Out won't grab the case; it just dulls the edge. I took some buffing compound and rounded and polished and an EZ-Out I had to make is still smoother for burnishing. The EZ-Out is very hard steel, and I can't imagine wearing one out this way.