1000-yard hunting with a .308 - Page 2

Theohazard · March 12, 2015, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger480

here are five people who made clean kills on game ranging from 800 yds to 1300 yds. Just because you or I can't do it doesn't mean we should look down our nose at those who can.

This thread is specifically about hunting elk at 1000 yards with a .308. I didn't watch all those videos, but were any of those shots done with a .308 on an animal the size of an elk?

JungleBoogey · March 12, 2015, 01:16 PM

youtube.com/watch?v=eIn1G8BeUuc

12 year old shoots Elk at 1376 yards... Didn't hear Caliber mentioned

Theohazard · March 12, 2015, 01:31 PM

These videos are irrelevant to this thread. First, I haven't seen one that specifically showed the use of a .308. And second, nobody here is disputing that killing an elk at 1000 yards with a .308 is possible (because it definitely could be done and I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who have done it), they're just saying that it's not a humane hunting practice.

For example, I'm pretty sure I could shoot an apple off my wife's head at 10 yards with my carry gun, but I'm also pretty sure that it wouldn't be a responsible thing to do.

Panfisher · March 12, 2015, 01:38 PM

Having helped on managed hunts enough to know how difficult it can be for the shooter to pinpoint the spot where a deer was standing when it was shot within 150 yards. I can't imagine trying to pinpoint where an elk was standing from 1000 yards away to begin a blood trail.

JungleBoogey · March 12, 2015, 01:41 PM

Ok. But I'd say what's 'humane' comes down to the person pulling the trigger to know... I personally wouldn't dream of taking at shot at those distances but I'm not going to 2nd guess the guys that do it

Saltydog235 · March 12, 2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure I could shoot an apple off my wife's head at 10 yards with my carry gun, but I'm also pretty sure that it wouldn't be a responsible thing to do.

You're welcome to practice on my ex-wife, not sure on responsible but it'd be humane for the rest of the world.

TimSr · March 12, 2015, 03:30 PM

1000 yard target shooting is fun to see how close you can come on paper. Not so fun "target shooting" on live animals. I get that there are differnet styles of "hunting", but I'm not seeing much "hunting" involved in shots this long.

Maybe what the guy is saying is true, but he is using a fisherman's tape measure to figure the distance.

Ruger480 · March 12, 2015, 03:53 PM

Quote:

were any of those shots done with a .308 on an animal the size of an elk?

I don't know the caliber but two of those videos were of elk being taken. Both elk dropped in their tracks.

I just watched another video where the shooter took an elk, specifically with a .308 at 875 yards. That animal too dropped in its' tracks. It even appeared from the video that the bullet passed through and kicked up dirt on the other side. The shot is at timer mark 5:40.

The OP states the guy came in looking for a long range semi-auto and appeared to know what he was talking about. Also, he claims to have taken game at long range before. So why are you guys trying to tear him down for it? It might be a different story if he came in and said "I just saw a video on youtube where guys shoot elk at 1k yards. I can get my hunting license next week and I'd like a semi auto in 308. Can you help me out?"
But he didn't, did he?
I agree that most people shouldn't try this but just because someone may have a skill a little better/different than what you're accustomed to doesn't mean you should vilify them for it.

That's all I'm saying.

Snyper · March 12, 2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

I agree that most people shouldn't try this but just because someone may have a skill a little better/different than what you're accustomed to doesn't mean you should vilify them for it.

There are few videos of the missed shots and wounded game from those who thought they were skilled enough to pull off the stunts.

No one brags about the failures

Ruger480 · March 12, 2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

There are few videos of the missed shots and wounded game from those who thought they were skilled enough to pull off the stunts.

No one brags about the failures

Misses and wounded game happen at all ranges.

Strafer Gott · March 12, 2015, 05:00 PM

I think the only ethical way to do it would be to put wind flags every hundred yards, and then shoot the elk from the 9th flag from your original postiton. (JOKE ALERT!) I'd have to knock the crap out of a lot of paper elk at 1,000 before I'd even dream of BS shots like this. It's called hunting season for a reason, although the reason escapes me when I read posts like this.

reynolds357 · March 12, 2015, 07:58 PM

Buckhorn, as I said "hitting a deer at a k is not a problem."

Snyper · March 12, 2015, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Misses and wounded game happen at all ranges.

The longer the range, the higher the probability

buckhorn_cortez · March 12, 2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Buckhorn, as I said "hitting a deer at a k is not a problem."

No, what you've said previously is -

Quote:

Hitting an Elk with a .308 at 1k would not be a problem.

It's the Internet - you can say whatever you want with impunity and no backup documentation.

Unless you are a practiced, outstanding marksman, know how to read environmental conditions over the distance, and have a rifle capable of sub-MOA accuracy with a really good scope -

Hitting either a deer or an elk at 1,000 yards can be done - but it is not easy.

I guess my questions would be - how much long distance shooting have you done regularly and how do you know that hitting a deer or elk at 1,000 yards "is not a problem"?

Are you shooting the rifle from your shoulder or using shooting sticks for the "no problem" long distance shots?

reynolds357 · March 12, 2015, 09:01 PM

Elk, Deer, whatever.
I shoot thousand yard bench rest. I have done a lot of long range shooting. The thousand yard shot is not nearly as hard as it used to be. Equipment has come a long way. Not talking about bench guns, but moving to true hunting rifles, I am confident that many people could hit a deer sized target with my Armalite Match Ar-10.
I know kids who can hit deer sized targets at 1k so long as they have someone figuring out the dope for them.
The guy in the store may or may not have been full of BS. There are guns that can do it. There are people who can do it. I am not a particularly good thousand yard shooter. There are people a whole lot better than I am, but it does not take super sniper to hit stuff at a K.

603Country · March 12, 2015, 09:40 PM

I just don't have much use for anyone that would consider shooting a deer or elk at 1000 yards - whether he hit it or not.

Years ago my cousin had a buddy he had met while long range shooting. The buddy was an old codger whose name I occasionally come across in old competition shooting books, as being national class. The old guy wanted to shoot a deer at long range, and he got his chance. Shot a doe at something over 700 yards, and mentioned it to me a couple of days later. To him the doe was just a target. It wasn't hunting. He just wanted to shoot one a long way off. I didn't like it, but I kept my mouth shut. That's not hunting. If somebody wants to target shoot, shoot paper. You can't gut shoot paper.

jaysouth · March 12, 2015, 09:40 PM

Tell him to move his blind 800 yards closer to the elk.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · March 12, 2015, 10:52 PM

Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day. As far as I'm concerned what he decides to do back in the bush is> his business. Would I attempt the same? No!

hartcreek · March 12, 2015, 10:58 PM

I shoot 1000 m on a regular basis with a 1950s Remington 721 in 30-06. I simply will NOT shoot at an elk beyond 600m. Yes I know I can hit a target BUT I want my animal Dead On the Spot instead of having to track it for six miles and then bone it out in the bottom of some forlorn canyon by the light of my headlamp or a kerosene lantern while watching over my shoulder for coyotes or other preditors.

I hope you were wearing boots when your customer was in your shop and your swept up after him after he left cus he sure was slinging some stuff.

eastbank · March 13, 2015, 06:23 AM

i watch the black hats shoot at 1000yds at out gun club and the sighter gong is 20" and they don,t miss it to often, once they get dialed in and read the wind and mirage right, 8-10" groups are pretty normal for them. about 40 years ago i watched long range shooters here in pa. shooting deer at beween 800-1000 yds, they had painted rocks at know distances and knew the clicks to be right on at those ranges and they killed deer dead. their bullets were still carrying 1600-1700fps and 1000-1100fpe at those ranges. is that kind of shooting for me, NO. but i know it can be done. eastbank.

TimSr · March 13, 2015, 06:49 AM

Quote:

I am confident that many people could hit a deer sized target with my Armalite Match Ar-10.

For clarifiaction, what exactly do you consider a "deer size" target? A target the size of a deer, or a target the size of the kill zone on a deer?

Quote:

Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day.

Sorry, but equating "legal" with "ethical" and the idea that anyone would allow a government legislature to deterine what is ethical, shows either a lack of undertstanding of the word "ethical" or an unrealistic faith in politicians to have the same ethics as you and force them on the public as law.

stagpanther · March 13, 2015, 07:43 AM

This is more of a question of "would you" rather than "can you" from my perspective. I agree with just because I can't doesn't mean someone else can't.

Somewhere mixed up in the ballistics equations, environmental variables and probabilities of things changing like a living, moving target I think there is a larger question of "hunting vs. killing." I'm sure there are very accomplished long-range hunters out there--but the few I've talked to on the subject struck me as being more of a "killing type" than a "hunter type." A hunter type being more concerned about high odds of putting meat in the freezer as opposed to a killing type who wants the thrill of a technically demanding shot or another head on the trophy wall.

kraigwy · March 13, 2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

He claimed he had lots of experience shooting at that distance

I have lots of experience in shooting the 308 at 1000 yards.

No way in hades will I hunt elk at 1000 yards with a 308.

A 308 is more then capable of poking holes in paper at 1000.

Elk are tougher then paper targets.

Ruger480 · March 13, 2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

No way in hades will I hunt elk at 1000 yards with a 308

Would you do it with an '06? Just curious...

buck460XVR · March 13, 2015, 10:09 AM

Seems in the last few years, that's what it's all about. Increasing the distance one can shoot with the new technology instead of decreasing the distance by improving your hunting skills. Used to be with a bow, a long shot was 30 yards. Now with the new bows and lightweight shafts, folks seem to think anyone can take a 80 yard shot. Muzzle loaders used to be primitive weapons. Now with the priming systems they have, the Sabot-ed bullets and BDC scopes, one may as well be using a Ruger #1. I remember when the challenge of turkey hunting was to call the bird within 35 yards. Now, folks buy a box of Hevi-shot and a Gobble-buster choke tube and start flinging lead at 70 yards. For every extra bird they get doing this, they probably wound/main 4.

There is technology out there for a scope that will not only range the target and adjust the elevation, but also the angle of the shot and measure any wind by a wind meter on the scope and by measuring movement of leaves downrange next to the target. Soon shooting at any target, even at the outer limits of the guns capabilities, will be like the new digital cameras.....point and click. Still, folks will claim it was a tough hunt.

March 12, 2015, 01:16 PM	#27
JungleBoogey Member Join Date: December 19, 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 26	Check This Out youtube.com/watch?v=eIn1G8BeUuc 12 year old shoots Elk at 1376 yards... Didn't hear Caliber mentioned

March 12, 2015, 01:31 PM	#28
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	These videos are irrelevant to this thread. First, I haven't seen one that specifically showed the use of a .308. And second, nobody here is disputing that killing an elk at 1000 yards with a .308 is possible (because it definitely could be done and I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who have done it), they're just saying that it's not a humane hunting practice. For example, I'm pretty sure I could shoot an apple off my wife's head at 10 yards with my carry gun, but I'm also pretty sure that it wouldn't be a responsible thing to do. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

March 12, 2015, 01:41 PM	#30
JungleBoogey Member Join Date: December 19, 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 26	Ok. But I'd say what's 'humane' comes down to the person pulling the trigger to know... I personally wouldn't dream of taking at shot at those distances but I'm not going to 2nd guess the guys that do it Last edited by JungleBoogey; March 12, 2015 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Additional thought

March 12, 2015, 09:01 PM	#40
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Elk, Deer, whatever. I shoot thousand yard bench rest. I have done a lot of long range shooting. The thousand yard shot is not nearly as hard as it used to be. Equipment has come a long way. Not talking about bench guns, but moving to true hunting rifles, I am confident that many people could hit a deer sized target with my Armalite Match Ar-10. I know kids who can hit deer sized targets at 1k so long as they have someone figuring out the dope for them. The guy in the store may or may not have been full of BS. There are guns that can do it. There are people who can do it. I am not a particularly good thousand yard shooter. There are people a whole lot better than I am, but it does not take super sniper to hit stuff at a K. Last edited by reynolds357; March 12, 2015 at 09:16 PM.

March 12, 2015, 01:38 PM	#29
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Having helped on managed hunts enough to know how difficult it can be for the shooter to pinpoint the spot where a deer was standing when it was shot within 150 yards. I can't imagine trying to pinpoint where an elk was standing from 1000 yards away to begin a blood trail.

March 12, 2015, 03:30 PM	#32
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	1000 yard target shooting is fun to see how close you can come on paper. Not so fun "target shooting" on live animals. I get that there are differnet styles of "hunting", but I'm not seeing much "hunting" involved in shots this long. Maybe what the guy is saying is true, but he is using a fisherman's tape measure to figure the distance.

March 12, 2015, 05:00 PM	#36
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I think the only ethical way to do it would be to put wind flags every hundred yards, and then shoot the elk from the 9th flag from your original postiton. (JOKE ALERT!) I'd have to knock the crap out of a lot of paper elk at 1,000 before I'd even dream of BS shots like this. It's called hunting season for a reason, although the reason escapes me when I read posts like this.

March 12, 2015, 07:58 PM	#37
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Buckhorn, as I said "hitting a deer at a k is not a problem."

March 12, 2015, 09:40 PM	#41
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I just don't have much use for anyone that would consider shooting a deer or elk at 1000 yards - whether he hit it or not. Years ago my cousin had a buddy he had met while long range shooting. The buddy was an old codger whose name I occasionally come across in old competition shooting books, as being national class. The old guy wanted to shoot a deer at long range, and he got his chance. Shot a doe at something over 700 yards, and mentioned it to me a couple of days later. To him the doe was just a target. It wasn't hunting. He just wanted to shoot one a long way off. I didn't like it, but I kept my mouth shut. That's not hunting. If somebody wants to target shoot, shoot paper. You can't gut shoot paper.

March 12, 2015, 09:40 PM	#42
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	Tell him to move his blind 800 yards closer to the elk.

March 12, 2015, 10:52 PM	#43
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day. As far as I'm concerned what he decides to do back in the bush is> his business. Would I attempt the same? No!

March 12, 2015, 10:58 PM	#44
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I shoot 1000 m on a regular basis with a 1950s Remington 721 in 30-06. I simply will NOT shoot at an elk beyond 600m. Yes I know I can hit a target BUT I want my animal Dead On the Spot instead of having to track it for six miles and then bone it out in the bottom of some forlorn canyon by the light of my headlamp or a kerosene lantern while watching over my shoulder for coyotes or other preditors. I hope you were wearing boots when your customer was in your shop and your swept up after him after he left cus he sure was slinging some stuff.

March 13, 2015, 06:23 AM	#45
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i watch the black hats shoot at 1000yds at out gun club and the sighter gong is 20" and they don,t miss it to often, once they get dialed in and read the wind and mirage right, 8-10" groups are pretty normal for them. about 40 years ago i watched long range shooters here in pa. shooting deer at beween 800-1000 yds, they had painted rocks at know distances and knew the clicks to be right on at those ranges and they killed deer dead. their bullets were still carrying 1600-1700fps and 1000-1100fpe at those ranges. is that kind of shooting for me, NO. but i know it can be done. eastbank.

March 13, 2015, 07:43 AM	#47
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,784	This is more of a question of "would you" rather than "can you" from my perspective. I agree with just because I can't doesn't mean someone else can't. Somewhere mixed up in the ballistics equations, environmental variables and probabilities of things changing like a living, moving target I think there is a larger question of "hunting vs. killing." I'm sure there are very accomplished long-range hunters out there--but the few I've talked to on the subject struck me as being more of a "killing type" than a "hunter type." A hunter type being more concerned about high odds of putting meat in the freezer as opposed to a killing type who wants the thrill of a technically demanding shot or another head on the trophy wall.

March 13, 2015, 10:09 AM	#50
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Seems in the last few years, that's what it's all about. Increasing the distance one can shoot with the new technology instead of decreasing the distance by improving your hunting skills. Used to be with a bow, a long shot was 30 yards. Now with the new bows and lightweight shafts, folks seem to think anyone can take a 80 yard shot. Muzzle loaders used to be primitive weapons. Now with the priming systems they have, the Sabot-ed bullets and BDC scopes, one may as well be using a Ruger #1. I remember when the challenge of turkey hunting was to call the bird within 35 yards. Now, folks buy a box of Hevi-shot and a Gobble-buster choke tube and start flinging lead at 70 yards. For every extra bird they get doing this, they probably wound/main 4. There is technology out there for a scope that will not only range the target and adjust the elevation, but also the angle of the shot and measure any wind by a wind meter on the scope and by measuring movement of leaves downrange next to the target. Soon shooting at any target, even at the outer limits of the guns capabilities, will be like the new digital cameras.....point and click. Still, folks will claim it was a tough hunt.