my first repro BP pistol

101combatvet · April 17, 2013, 01:04 AM

Just purchased a Colt Army and was wondering what is the best powder for accuracy and clean up.

Doc Hoy · April 17, 2013, 01:45 AM

...There might not be a single answer to that question. In addition that answer for someone else might be different from the answer for you.

You asked about cleanliness and accuracy.

Lets talk about cleanliness.

I think Pyrodex is a powder which leaves little mess and cleans up easily. But even Pyrodex requires a lot of attention after the day at the range. Some of us have come to appreciate the fact that BP shooting makes a lot of soot.

As regards accuracy, I would say that your revolver will tell you what powder it likes best. But this is a message the pistol send to you over a very long period of time and only after you learn how to ask the right questions of the revolver.

I have shot BP revolvers for a long time. But I don't shoot very much (About 2000 rounds a year) and I don't shoot very scientifically and I am not able to detect differences in accuracy between Pyrodex, Triple Seven, and Goex. I have never tried Swiss or other more exotic powders so I can't speak to accuracy per se. I think that consistency of your loading techique, revolver maintenance regimen, and shooting technique will add more to smaller groups (which is how I think of accuracy) than your choice of powder.

I would go to the local gun shop and buy a pound each of two fo the three powders I mentioned. (I recommend these powders because in my experience, they are the ones which are most readily available.) Shoot up an entire pound of one of the powders, Keep the targets. Then shoot up an entire pound of the other powder and compare the targets. After these two experiences, you MIGHT have an idea that one of the powders is better in your Colt than the other.

When you are shooting, pay close attention to as many of the variables you can think of. I could mention some suggestions but this response is already so long most folks would not read the whole thing. Others will wade in with some suggestions and actually you want some different points of view.

Hawg · April 17, 2013, 05:05 AM

Pretty much what Doc said but if you can get real bp use it. Ain't nuffin like the smell of real bp in the morning.

Doc Hoy · April 17, 2013, 05:48 AM

There are many reasons for shooting black powder revolvers. Many aspects of the lifestyle which make it fun.

Not the least of which is the significance of the historical connection.

BirchOrr · April 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

Doc & Hawg are are among the most knowledgeable who post to this forum. They always give excellent advice!

I just posted to the "black powder" thread on this forum see: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522720 on this topic.

You will see what I use and why. I came to this conclusion after firing hundreds of rounds, shooting from a bench rest and recording the results of each shot. Keep in mind, this was just for one pistol! Another pistol will be different. Just ONE of the reasons I love BP! I get to enjoy discovering each gun and what it likes and doesn't like. (Kinda sounds like a gettin a new gal eh?)

All the best,

Birch

Fingers McGee · April 17, 2013, 11:28 AM

Pretty much agree with Doc & Hawg as well. Over the last 40 years I've used Goex in about all granulations; Lidu, Elephant, Dragon - all of which aren't made anymore; Swiss, Sheutzen, Grafs, Wano, and Kik blackpowders as well as Pyrodex (long time ago & never again); Clean Shot, Clear Shot, Pinnacle - none still being made; APP, and T7. Some were very clean burning (Swiss, Lidu, Dragon), and some were absolutely filthy (Elephant, Pyrodex) Right now, I'm using Scheutzen. It has turned out to be a fairly clean burning and accurate powder for me in CAS competition using C&Bs and catridges.

YMMV

101combatvet · April 17, 2013, 12:02 PM

Thanks to all.... I can't wait to try out this handgun.

Doc Hoy · April 17, 2013, 01:31 PM

"Holy Crap!"

Thats is a Colt Colt.

Might want to put it aside and buy yourself another one to shoot. I don't shoot my Colt Colts. They are too nice.

(I am about half kidding here....but only about half.)

robhof · April 17, 2013, 02:02 PM

I would have to agree with Doc about shooting a Colt, even though the parts may have come from Italy, the hand finishing was done by Colt people in the USA and that makes that gun a part of history. Saying that though I would have to shoot it at least once, as I don't buy collectables. Keep us informed and you've got a fine remake of a classic Colt with the fit and finish given to the originals, but fully capable of being a fine shooter.

Doc Hoy · April 17, 2013, 02:43 PM

But I have to give a nod to the folks who own and love to shoot their 2nd and 3rd gen Colts.

Pretty much everyone knows I am a little odd.

Fingers McGee · April 17, 2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Hoy

In the immortal words of Peter Boyle...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Holy Crap!"

Thats is a Colt Colt.

Which will make it that much nicer to shoot.

Signature Series (3rd Generation) percussion Colt's are quite shootable. 32 grains of fffg genuine gunpowder (BP), .45 cal lubed wad, and a .454 roundball ougth to be agood accurate load. If you intend to use T7, drop back to 28 grains.

Doc Hoy · April 17, 2013, 03:59 PM

...And it is very valid.

I have a .36 that was shot previously and so I took it out and found it to be a little finnicky. It requires more frequent wiping and lubing at the range than my Piettas and others. Perhaps the tolerances are closer.

It is fun to shoot though and I don't quarrel with those who choose to shoot their 2nds and 3rds.

brazosdave · April 17, 2013, 04:54 PM

Don't matter to me who the heck made it, I'd shoot it! There's some European fellas on this facebook site i'm on, and they collect the originals and shoot em. Lotsa fun!

Rigmarol · April 17, 2013, 05:47 PM

Shoot that Colt!!! that's what it was born for!!!

I have two Signature Colt's Dragoons and I can't get enough of em!

I even sinned and had them converted to be able to shoot Cartridges as well.

You are going to love that gun so much!

Fingers McGee · April 17, 2013, 06:35 PM

Liberally lube the arbor with Bore Butter . That will keep it spinning free for 75 - 100 shots [depending on weather conditions]

101combatvet · April 17, 2013, 07:33 PM

I bought it to shoot.... but I will keep it in fine condition as with all of my other toys. Not sure how often I will shoot it... time will tell. Finding some of the supplies is becoming a pain in my area. The hazmat fee for powder is sinful. Thanks for all the tips and great information.

trident00 · April 17, 2013, 09:24 PM

Where do you find those? I would love to have a signiture Colt.

woodnbow · April 17, 2013, 09:29 PM

A "pain in your area"? I've never heard it put that way before.. You must be Army...

.

.

.

.

.

ss

Fingers McGee · April 18, 2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trident00

Where do you find those? I would love to have a signiture Colt.

There are always a few on GunBroker and GunAuction

Rigmarol · April 18, 2013, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Where do you find those? I would love to have a signiture Colt.

I found my first Colt's Dragoon in my Local Gun Store. I had an Italian clone in my hand ready to buy it when my lovely wife said "oh, look at that one over there." She was pointing at the Colt Di$play Ca$e.

I compared the two and could not get the Colt to drop from my hand. So I paid the man and went home with it.

About 6 months later in the same store, I was just talking with the owner and happened to say how much I was enjoying the Colt Dragoon when he gave me an evil grin (I swear I saw dollar signs in both eyes). He turned around and reached under the counter and he pulls out a SECOND Colt's Dragoon. This one didn't have the original box so it got it for $150 less than the first one. I didn't even bother to dicker over the price, just paid the man. Have never been sorry.

But, I've also heard they show up on GunBroker.com fairly regularly. But you just gotta fondle one to want one.

April 17, 2013, 01:04 AM	#1
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	my first repro BP pistol Just purchased a Colt Army and was wondering what is the best powder for accuracy and clean up. __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications] Last edited by 101combatvet; April 17, 2013 at 11:59 AM.

April 17, 2013, 01:45 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I think that... ...There might not be a single answer to that question. In addition that answer for someone else might be different from the answer for you. You asked about cleanliness and accuracy. Lets talk about cleanliness. I think Pyrodex is a powder which leaves little mess and cleans up easily. But even Pyrodex requires a lot of attention after the day at the range. Some of us have come to appreciate the fact that BP shooting makes a lot of soot. As regards accuracy, I would say that your revolver will tell you what powder it likes best. But this is a message the pistol send to you over a very long period of time and only after you learn how to ask the right questions of the revolver. I have shot BP revolvers for a long time. But I don't shoot very much (About 2000 rounds a year) and I don't shoot very scientifically and I am not able to detect differences in accuracy between Pyrodex, Triple Seven, and Goex. I have never tried Swiss or other more exotic powders so I can't speak to accuracy per se. I think that consistency of your loading techique, revolver maintenance regimen, and shooting technique will add more to smaller groups (which is how I think of accuracy) than your choice of powder. I would go to the local gun shop and buy a pound each of two fo the three powders I mentioned. (I recommend these powders because in my experience, they are the ones which are most readily available.) Shoot up an entire pound of one of the powders, Keep the targets. Then shoot up an entire pound of the other powder and compare the targets. After these two experiences, you MIGHT have an idea that one of the powders is better in your Colt than the other. When you are shooting, pay close attention to as many of the variables you can think of. I could mention some suggestions but this response is already so long most folks would not read the whole thing. Others will wade in with some suggestions and actually you want some different points of view. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 17, 2013, 05:48 AM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I am inclined to agree with Hawg There are many reasons for shooting black powder revolvers. Many aspects of the lifestyle which make it fun. Not the least of which is the significance of the historical connection. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 17, 2013, 10:10 AM	#5
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	Great advice! Doc & Hawg are are among the most knowledgeable who post to this forum. They always give excellent advice! I just posted to the "black powder" thread on this forum see: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522720 on this topic. You will see what I use and why. I came to this conclusion after firing hundreds of rounds, shooting from a bench rest and recording the results of each shot. Keep in mind, this was just for one pistol! Another pistol will be different. Just ONE of the reasons I love BP! I get to enjoy discovering each gun and what it likes and doesn't like. (Kinda sounds like a gettin a new gal eh?) All the best, Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

April 17, 2013, 11:28 AM	#6
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Pretty much agree with Doc & Hawg as well. Over the last 40 years I've used Goex in about all granulations; Lidu, Elephant, Dragon - all of which aren't made anymore; Swiss, Sheutzen, Grafs, Wano, and Kik blackpowders as well as Pyrodex (long time ago & never again); Clean Shot, Clear Shot, Pinnacle - none still being made; APP, and T7. Some were very clean burning (Swiss, Lidu, Dragon), and some were absolutely filthy (Elephant, Pyrodex) Right now, I'm using Scheutzen. It has turned out to be a fairly clean burning and accurate powder for me in CAS competition using C&Bs and catridges. YMMV __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

April 17, 2013, 05:05 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Pretty much what Doc said but if you can get real bp use it. Ain't nuffin like the smell of real bp in the morning.

April 17, 2013, 12:02 PM	#7
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	Thanks to all.... I can't wait to try out this handgun. __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]

April 17, 2013, 01:31 PM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	In the immortal words of Peter Boyle... "Holy Crap!" Thats is a Colt Colt. Might want to put it aside and buy yourself another one to shoot. I don't shoot my Colt Colts. They are too nice. (I am about half kidding here....but only about half.) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 17, 2013, 02:02 PM	#9
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof I would have to agree with Doc about shooting a Colt, even though the parts may have come from Italy, the hand finishing was done by Colt people in the USA and that makes that gun a part of history. Saying that though I would have to shoot it at least once, as I don't buy collectables. Keep us informed and you've got a fine remake of a classic Colt with the fit and finish given to the originals, but fully capable of being a fine shooter.

April 17, 2013, 02:43 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Robhof + 1 But I have to give a nod to the folks who own and love to shoot their 2nd and 3rd gen Colts. Pretty much everyone knows I am a little odd. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 17, 2013, 03:59 PM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Fingers gave us the "Shoot it" point of view... ...And it is very valid. I have a .36 that was shot previously and so I took it out and found it to be a little finnicky. It requires more frequent wiping and lubing at the range than my Piettas and others. Perhaps the tolerances are closer. It is fun to shoot though and I don't quarrel with those who choose to shoot their 2nds and 3rds. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 17, 2013, 04:54 PM	#13
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Crockett, Texas Posts: 363	Don't matter to me who the heck made it, I'd shoot it! There's some European fellas on this facebook site i'm on, and they collect the originals and shoot em. Lotsa fun! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

April 17, 2013, 05:47 PM	#14
Rigmarol Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 344	Shoot that Colt!!! that's what it was born for!!! I have two Signature Colt's Dragoons and I can't get enough of em! I even sinned and had them converted to be able to shoot Cartridges as well. You are going to love that gun so much!

April 17, 2013, 06:35 PM	#15
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	In addition ............................. Liberally lube the arbor with Bore Butter . That will keep it spinning free for 75 - 100 shots [depending on weather conditions] __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

April 17, 2013, 07:33 PM	#16
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	I bought it to shoot.... but I will keep it in fine condition as with all of my other toys. Not sure how often I will shoot it... time will tell. Finding some of the supplies is becoming a pain in my area. The hazmat fee for powder is sinful. Thanks for all the tips and great information. __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]

April 17, 2013, 09:24 PM	#17
trident00 Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2013 Posts: 7	Where do you find those? I would love to have a signiture Colt.

April 17, 2013, 09:29 PM	#18
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	A "pain in your area"? I've never heard it put that way before.. You must be Army... . . . . . ss

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