Wilson and Giraud case trimmers

[Bart B.]

Eppie, I think its best to judge accuracy by the largest groups fired. After all, don't you want to know what the furthest distance is a shot will strike from your aiming point? I rather have a system that tests between 2 and 5 units of measurement instead of between 1 and 6.

Arsenals testing small arms ammo for accuracy shoot a hundred or two shots per test group, then calculate the mean radius of all shots from group center. Typical group size of all shots fired is a bit over 3 times the mean radius. They could care less how many miss the group center by some very small amount.

As most of the folks seeking accuracy are infatuated by tiny groups, those tiny ones are not all that great for assesing the accuracy folks can count on all the time.

[schmellba99]

Do you just screw the holder down till it hits bottom then lock the nut down, is that all there is to it?

The cutter is at a set point inside the machine - the nut with the shell holder is adjustable so that you can trim longer or shorter based on your preferences. The case datum is on the shoulder, so you adjust the spring loaded nut/case holder closer or further from the cutting head depending on your length requirements.

Once you hit the right case length, you lock it down. It's a trial and error thing at first, from what I understand, but once you get it set up, you'll trim to something like .001" every single time, if not even more accurate than that.

The case holder is spring loaded, so you have to push the case in a smidge to get contact with the cutting head. A spin of the case ensures that you are cutting square, in theory anyway.

I've read and heard nothing but raving reviews bout the Giraud. One of these days I'll spring for one when I get over my cheap-ness.

[F. Guffey]

"As most of the folks seeking accuracy are infatuated by tiny groups, those tiny ones are not all that great for assesing the accuracy folks can count on all the time"

Bart B., if you can't do it why bother. One of my next projects was going to be a 98 Mauser last ditch, I took 4 boxes of ammo with 16 different loads to the range, about the time I decided the rifle was tumbling bullets a another shooter reloader cam over and was bragging on accuracy, what I thought was bullets tumbling were small groups, the small groups moved, they did not spread.

"accuracy and infatuated ?" If that rifle had not been accurate, in a short time it would have been turned into something else. I can tolerate ugly, rifles that shoot like shotguns?

"As most of the folks seeking accuracy are infatuated by tiny groups, those tiny ones are not all that great for assessing the accuracy folks can count on all the time"

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2011/09/...903-rifle.aspx

F. Guffey

[NuJudge]

I shoot Service Rifle. I have to trim thousands of cases at a time. With a Forster, it took me all evening for a week to do 4000 cases, even with the spud that allowed it to be powered by a hand drill. I switched to a Giraud, and could do 4000 in a night.

I did use a Wilson trimmer of my Dad's. I did not get the impression it was more accurate than the Forster that I eventually purchased. I have not noticed any difference in accuracy between the Forster and the Giraud, but I have noticed a heck of an increase in speed.

[cryogenic419]

Eppie,
All other things aside, that Giraud will trim cases quickly...you will love that machine. That backorder time sucks but when you get the machine you will see it was definitely worth the wait.

Nujudge,
Where in SE Mich are you and where do you shoot?

[Bart B.]

cryogenic419's comment:

Accurate ammo doesn't just happen by slapping everything together, you need to prep the cases so they are consistent from the first case, to the 30th case to the last case.

There are many who will disagree. I'm one of them.

If I can take 20 once-fired (in another rifle) full length sized WCC60 .308 Win. cases unprepped in any way having a 3-grain spread in weight, put 45 grain charges of IMR4895 in them with a 2/10ths grain spread, seat Sierra 155's in them and they've got .003" max runout, then shoot them like this,



slapping together all the right stuff from the get-go will yield great results.

Sierra Bullets does not prep cases nor change the recipie for testing their 30 caliber match bullets when a new lot of bullets and components are used. They use the same recipie each time. And shoot 1/4 MOA test groups at 200 yards with them.

[RC20]

I like the neck trimmers. I get to use the Gerard for the 223 (just do big batches) and it works perfectly.

For myself, price was an object and I use the Lil Gunworks trimmer Same idea but for a drill. Works fine for the larger quantities of 30-06 I shoot routinely.

If I was doing more than that I would go with Lil gun for smaller batches and the Gerard for larger production.

Having to rejig the Gerard would be annoying for smaller batches.

[F. Guffey]

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2011/09/...903-rifle.aspx

George Farr, went to a shooting match, I do not know how he got there, I do not know if he rode inside the train or if he rode on top, for all I know he could have 'rode the blind'. What little I do know is he did not have a rifle, he choose a rifle out of a rack, if it was only a matter of throwing a pile of ammo together the first rifle would have been acceptable, he then picked another rifle, thought to be a WW1 surplus rifle, difference? With the same ammo that did not work in his first selection got him a lot of attention, seems he was out shot by a competitor, his competitor had the advantage, he had time to select his rifle and he also had time to practice, seems the story goes something like, it was getting late, Mr. Farr could have gotten an earlier start but, remember, he did not have a rifle.

Then there is that same story about Sierra bullets, let us all have rifles like Sierra, then there is the price, Sierra is not testing rifles, they are testing ammo, I believe there test equipment has the receiver hanging out the back and is not supported, I believe they clamp the barrel in the holding devise.

F. Guffey