punching BG's ticket at the bank

[therealdeal]

You're doing your local banking within a bank. You have your lollipop, your mulling around the center counter with deposit slip, and you are CCW. It is allowed at your banking institution. You know the people, as this bank you've had an account in since you were single digits years old. An armed robbery takes place with only one BG you are sure of. You are pretty sure he is the only assailant, but it is possible there is a lookout. He makes everyone get down, and he is being verbally threatening while getting money from the teller. He IS telling her there is a very good chance she willnot be seeing another day, he has already pistol whipped one woman in the face causing her to bleed profusely while falling down in pain, and he is aiming the weapon with the barrel no more than 1-2inches from the bank teller's head who is hysterical but compliant(he is on the other side of the bank counter that the teller is on). You are on your knees, and you could easily stand up or even fire a shot at the BG from where you kneel. There are no potential victims behind if you miss, but the teller is to the side(w/regards to your angle of fire). What do you do? You are all but positive you can terminate this BG.

ps- I will shoot him in the noggin and terminate the threat, but I would like to know what you would do. I might've shot centermass, but he took one to the head+was out of commission for good.

[Tamara]

Why is the internet so eager to shoot people?

[.40cal]

Why is the internet so eager to shoot people?

I have no idea.

[Yankee Doodle]

"The real deal" is that you will be spending your life's savings defending your actions in various courts for the next 5 or so years. In my opinion, your life was not threatened as you spell out your tale.. If you can get a grand jury to think that it was, you will avoid criminal charges. However, there is no way that you will avoid a whole series of civil suits, not to mention the possibility of a federal chage of civil rights violation.
Don't play hero. Too expensive.

[therealdeal]

hey you all. tamara I read your posting on the other thread. this thread doesn't have to do with the internet shooting stuff(as in I am not trigger happy because its the internet). I shouldn't have given an opinion because my goal was to create a discussion as to what to do and/or what various TFL's would do. Instead its leading to a reaction to my solution, but this is my fault+I respect your opinions. As for the defense lawyers and such, why are we carrying a weapon if we can't do something? I can't let my mother's best friend at this bank have her ticket punched instead of the BG's. That being said yankeedoodle, I understand where you are coimg from but I don't understand how an armed robbery in progress with an honest, severe threat of death of another human doesn't justify lethal force. I cannot say definately what I would do if this scenario happened tomorrow in real life rather than the internet. I can say that it is possible given pretty definate circumstances of success(which I tried to portray in my thread post), I wouldn't be surprised if I did take him out. Imagine if its your daughter working behind the counter and she is about to have your grand-baby. I don't see a difference except adrenaline+emotion to justify it. Obviously you have to make the decision as to whether you are capable of doing this and being successful.

[therealdeal]

one more thing before the computer becomes absent for sometime today due to powers beyond my control:

I am just mentioning this because I am sure I missed a bunch of other variables(sort of hard not to w/these scenarios sometimes)//sometimes I don't think people realize how dangerous verbal warnings can be. I would think moreso in some of the threads I have read w/home invasions, and trying to do the right thing, etc while trying to protect your family. there are times when verbal warnings are a Must. However, you are in a life threatening situation too and sometimes you aren't required to give verbal warnings. Sometimes you just need to use lethal force when you know its necessary and you can legally do it(I know this can be a grey area depending on the situation). An example is the castle law and my home. I am not going to risk my family w/warnings and hesitations to a BG when I know there is a deadly threat involving my family and a home invasion/robbery, but thats just me. Same goes at the bank. If I hesitate I could get a round from a lookout or this guy could be quick as lightning killing me, her, or doing something else such as grabbing her.

I meant to say earlier that BG and me both had double action revolvers

[MLeake]

Tamara... it's a Tactics and Training forum; Tactics discussions usually involve shooting scenarios, so discussions about shoot/don't shoot shouldn't raise too many eyebrows in this forum. Talk of "punching tickets" etc does seem pretty Walter Mitty, though.

One of my complaints with the internet in general. Even if you're not a country fan, check out Brad Paisley's video for the MySpace song; I think it's closer to reality than many would like to admit.

Yankee Doodle... your state may only allow SD in defense of self. There are at least a few states that allow deadly force in defense of others. While I am not eager to shoot anybody, I'd hate to think I'd let a woman get beaten and bloodied, and a man get shot, because I was thinking of possible future lawsuits. I think I'd rather be a pauper who could look myself in the mirror, than a yuppie who always questioned his (non-monetary) worth.

Not to say I wouldn't lose sleep over shooting a BG, if it came to that. I probably would. But I'd lose more over the victim I might have aided, instead.

[jhenry]

The "realdeal", you should be aware that shooting someone who currently has a firearm at someones head could very easily cause that firearm to discharge thereby killing the hostage you are heroically attempting to save. Try splainin that to the jury.

All other issues aside it is a very poor decision for that reason alone. It isn't the movies and that guy could easily, very easily, convulse, contract, seize up, collapse on the gun, get very angry and truly homocidal, or any of a number of things and cause a bullet to sail on through the tellers noggin or some other necessary anatomical region. A bad move poorly thought out.

There are times when such an action would be taken but this isn't one of them.

[therealdeal]

jhenry,

I thought of that originally, and this is why I added the doubleaction revolver bit later(I had meant to put in original post//not that it still couldn't happen). If I yell "hey", and he turns his body to look he isn't shooting my wife's best friend. If I decide to take this man's life, it will be a oneshot deal too. I also can have him in my sights until he moves the angle of the weapon or drops it from her head to get the cash or whatever. The chances of her dying at his hands are worse in my eyes if he is telling her believably that he is seriously thinking about killing her, and he has already shown such aggression with another woman. I admit, this should be a no-alternative decision and it will have repercussions. Bottom line, I have made a decision to stop this situation. Jhenry, what would you do Sir if this honestly happened to you bearing in mind that you probably are right in what you said?

[Mike Irwin]

I issue a blood curdling scream, unsling my +6 Iron Mace of Thwappage, and crush yonder miscreant's noggin with a mighty blow.

Then I finish with my deposit.

[Wildalaska]

Why is the internet so eager to shoot people?

Freud has many of the answers.

As to the scenario, I cant follow the OPS writing style, although I suspect the whole story is perhaps from TV.


WildtimeformetoputmysupermanthongonandgoshootingAlaska ™©2002-2010

[Sefner]

Some states, MI included, give civil protections to people involved in self defense shootings, namely if the shooting is found to be justified then the shooter cannot be sued in civil court. This is a very general statement, but you get the idea.

I see no reason to shoot the guy. Mainly because if he wanted to kill someone he would have done it already, so he is a little shaky on the intent side of the threat triangle. Bank robbery is 10-20, murder is 20-life. As we say in economics, his threat is not credible. Be a good witness, remember EVERYTHING that happens, try to see what car he gets in, call 911 and set the phone on the floor (it will be recorded), look for any scars, facial hair, tattoos, mannerisms, of the perp. Identify the type of gun. If you did dial 911, whisper all of this information into the mouth piece. The dispatcher won't know what is going on but remember, it is recorded, and can all be made clear eventually. This information will lead to a much better outcome.

I also see no reason to say, on the internet, that you would shoot anyone. The last thing "therealdeal" needs is to walk into a bank and actually have to defend their self and the next thing you know the prosecutor or some shark lawyer finds this post. Suddenly you were planning the whole thing. And by the way "therealdeal" writes, if I were on the jury I might actually buy that. Maybe if you do rescue one of the hot blonde bank tellers (I'm sure they are hot and blonde) they might "reward" you. Sorry. I only did it cuz the mods made it ok.

[pax]

Well, that's about enough of that.

pax