CAS Shotguns

ZVP · March 13, 2010, 07:16 PM

I have never seen anyone use a single barrel shotgun in CAS competition. I am sure there were a goodly number of "Back Door Guns" used in defensive situations in days gone by and I was wondering if anyone else has seen a single barrel used in the same manner as a double would be used?
I know the speed and time would be longer but in many situations shooters are using '97s single loaded and except for the fast first couple shots an experienced shooter could hold his/her own with one.
ZVP

Hawg · March 13, 2010, 10:30 PM

A 97 can be loaded over the top still shoulder mounted much faster than a double could be loaded much less a single barrel.

Andy Griffith · March 14, 2010, 03:20 AM

Single shot shotguns are the most overlooked portion of a cowboy shoot.

Sure, the '97, '87 their Italian and Chinese knock-off brethren, or the occasional Marlin, Spencer or Burgess are what most shooters want to take- after all, you'll either be labeled crazy to show up with a single barrel, or just not serious about the sport.

Although I don't think I'd be any contender at all, nor would I want to be...but I learned a long time ago to be proficient with a single barrel.

I believe there were more feller armed with the single shots than all the repeaters put together historically. At least, most fellers couldn't afford a repeating shotgun- and even if they could, it was likely the Spencer- it hit the market in 1882-1883 time frame, nearly five years before the Winchester 1887,

I wouldn't try it with an 1885 Winchester in 20 gauge, but something with an ejector (which, I don't know if it is "official" rules or not) but my club allows it.

Hawg · March 14, 2010, 06:21 AM

Currently the 97 Winchester is the only pump allowed in SASS and ejectors are not allowed.

MacGille · March 14, 2010, 10:55 PM

I use a '97, load 2 rounds at a time and am faster with the scattergun than any one in my area. The secret is to use a pouch for the shotgun cartridges that holds 6 rounds in three pouches. Two rounds together base up. Pick up the gun with the left hand holding it with the ejector port up, drop in one cartridge, slide the forearm forward and load the next round from the bottom.
with practice this can be done almost in one motion. When you shoot thetwo rounds it can almost sound like one shot. Bring the slide back, turn the port up and repeat with the next two rounds.

HiBC · March 15, 2010, 12:02 AM

CAS is a game that evolved to be what it is.No point to argue it.No complaint.I think the movie "LongRiders",was very interesting in the way it showed the common single barrel in action.
IMO,"The Spirit of The Game",history and all,should embrace the single break shotgun.
But,then,if it did,all the used single shots in USA would be bought up,the barrels would be sawed off,and a part of firearms history,and a cheap shotgun,would be gone.

There are not so many 97 duck guns left.
But,its OK they are being used and enjoyed in CAS

craiso · March 15, 2010, 09:54 AM

I am glad that someone besides me is curious about the single barrel shotgun. I have had mine for years and have been thinking of cutting it down and try to shoot it real fast

. Some day I might actually get a chance to compete, if I can get over my performance anxiety

. I'm sure if you show up with a single and do the best you can, it might start a trend

.

Hawg · March 15, 2010, 10:37 AM

You don't need a short barrel for CAS and most shooters cringe at the thought of chopping off original barrels.

Noz · March 15, 2010, 02:37 PM

Hawg, ejectors ARE allowed for single shot shotgun.

Noz · March 15, 2010, 02:38 PM

Hawg, ejectors ARE allowed for single shot shotgun.

Page 10 of the Shooters Handbook

Hawg · March 15, 2010, 02:41 PM

OK cool, shows what I know.

craiso · March 15, 2010, 03:03 PM

My shotgun is a 12 gauge NEF Pardner I bought new about 15 years ago. I am thinking about taking the barrel down to 20 inches, have a new bead installed, thread the barrel for a removable choke tube (then recrown), and reshape the stock. It has always set in the corner of the bedroom, just in case. Now, with a few changes, I will take it out to the back yard and have some fun with it

.

bobn · March 15, 2010, 07:20 PM

i gave more than one guy a fit by chopping off my 28" mod barreled 97 to 21 inches. makes it just right, lol bobn

Hawg · March 15, 2010, 07:28 PM

Is why I have this 20 inch Norinco 97.

Delmar · March 18, 2010, 03:49 AM

I am evaluating CAS shotguns as well, but when I get mine I want it to double as a home defense gun. I have heard people mention reliability issues with the 97. Would I be better off with an SxS or if well maintained, would a 97 be fine for a home defense weapon?

ebr-lvr · March 18, 2010, 09:09 AM

I wouldn't trade my old mod 37 .12 for nothin'.

Hawg · March 18, 2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

I have heard people mention reliability issues with the 97.

Maybe on an original with worn parts but a well maintained original is very reliable as is my Norinco. The action on the Norinco was a little stiff out of the box but slicked up very nicely.

Quote:

I wouldn't trade my old mod 37 .12 for nothin'.

Don't doubt that but the thread is about CAS guns and the 37 isn't CAS legal.

tater134 · March 18, 2010, 03:26 PM

I have a Norinco 97 and Ive fired hundreds of shells through it without any issues.It did need some breaking in when I first got it but thats to be expected with a brand new gun.Ive used to it to shoot clays before and it was surprisingly effective and I keep it loaded with 00 Buck for home defense.

ebr-lvr · March 18, 2010, 05:13 PM

Respectfully Hawg Haggen, why would my Winchester mod.37 single bbl. not be legal for CAS? You've got me a little curious

Delmar · March 18, 2010, 07:40 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=161405096 Is this gun an 1897 clone? Seems really inexpensive.

Hawg · March 18, 2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Respectfully Hawg Haggen, why would my Winchester mod.37 single bbl. not be legal for CAS? You've got me a little curious

My bad wasn't thinking single barrel. I was thinking Marlin pump

tater134 · March 19, 2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=161405096 Is this gun an 1897 clone? Seems really inexpensive

Yep thats it.

Delmar · March 19, 2010, 03:08 PM

IAC is supposed to be a good brand, and is says NIB which I think means new in box. Is there reason to believe that this would be an inferior version of that brand?
That auction ended without a bid, by the way, but they relisted it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=161529110

Hawg · March 19, 2010, 04:22 PM

Norinco is a very good brand. The earlier versions had some kind of light weight mystery wood but the later ones have walnut stocks. Wood for real 97's fits tho.

Delmar · March 19, 2010, 04:35 PM

In that case, I wish this was a good time for me to spend $300.

March 13, 2010, 07:16 PM	#1
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	CAS Shotguns I have never seen anyone use a single barrel shotgun in CAS competition. I am sure there were a goodly number of "Back Door Guns" used in defensive situations in days gone by and I was wondering if anyone else has seen a single barrel used in the same manner as a double would be used? I know the speed and time would be longer but in many situations shooters are using '97s single loaded and except for the fast first couple shots an experienced shooter could hold his/her own with one. ZVP

March 14, 2010, 03:20 AM	#3
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	Single shot shotguns are the most overlooked portion of a cowboy shoot. Sure, the '97, '87 their Italian and Chinese knock-off brethren, or the occasional Marlin, Spencer or Burgess are what most shooters want to take- after all, you'll either be labeled crazy to show up with a single barrel, or just not serious about the sport. Although I don't think I'd be any contender at all, nor would I want to be...but I learned a long time ago to be proficient with a single barrel. I believe there were more feller armed with the single shots than all the repeaters put together historically. At least, most fellers couldn't afford a repeating shotgun- and even if they could, it was likely the Spencer- it hit the market in 1882-1883 time frame, nearly five years before the Winchester 1887, I wouldn't try it with an 1885 Winchester in 20 gauge, but something with an ejector (which, I don't know if it is "official" rules or not) but my club allows it. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

March 14, 2010, 10:55 PM	#5
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	I use a '97, load 2 rounds at a time and am faster with the scattergun than any one in my area. The secret is to use a pouch for the shotgun cartridges that holds 6 rounds in three pouches. Two rounds together base up. Pick up the gun with the left hand holding it with the ejector port up, drop in one cartridge, slide the forearm forward and load the next round from the bottom. with practice this can be done almost in one motion. When you shoot thetwo rounds it can almost sound like one shot. Bring the slide back, turn the port up and repeat with the next two rounds. __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

March 15, 2010, 09:54 AM	#7
craiso Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Northwest Missouri Posts: 22	I am glad that someone besides me is curious about the single barrel shotgun. I have had mine for years and have been thinking of cutting it down and try to shoot it real fast . Some day I might actually get a chance to compete, if I can get over my performance anxiety . I'm sure if you show up with a single and do the best you can, it might start a trend . __________________ Christopher

March 15, 2010, 03:03 PM	#12
craiso Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Northwest Missouri Posts: 22	My shotgun is a 12 gauge NEF Pardner I bought new about 15 years ago. I am thinking about taking the barrel down to 20 inches, have a new bead installed, thread the barrel for a removable choke tube (then recrown), and reshape the stock. It has always set in the corner of the bedroom, just in case. Now, with a few changes, I will take it out to the back yard and have some fun with it . __________________ Christopher

March 13, 2010, 10:30 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	A 97 can be loaded over the top still shoulder mounted much faster than a double could be loaded much less a single barrel.

March 14, 2010, 06:21 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Currently the 97 Winchester is the only pump allowed in SASS and ejectors are not allowed.

March 15, 2010, 12:02 AM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	CAS is a game that evolved to be what it is.No point to argue it.No complaint.I think the movie "LongRiders",was very interesting in the way it showed the common single barrel in action. IMO,"The Spirit of The Game",history and all,should embrace the single break shotgun. But,then,if it did,all the used single shots in USA would be bought up,the barrels would be sawed off,and a part of firearms history,and a cheap shotgun,would be gone. There are not so many 97 duck guns left. But,its OK they are being used and enjoyed in CAS

March 15, 2010, 10:37 AM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	You don't need a short barrel for CAS and most shooters cringe at the thought of chopping off original barrels.

March 15, 2010, 02:37 PM	#9
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Hawg, ejectors ARE allowed for single shot shotgun.

March 15, 2010, 02:38 PM	#10
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Hawg, ejectors ARE allowed for single shot shotgun. Page 10 of the Shooters Handbook

March 15, 2010, 02:41 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	OK cool, shows what I know.

March 15, 2010, 07:20 PM	#13
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	i gave more than one guy a fit by chopping off my 28" mod barreled 97 to 21 inches. makes it just right, lol bobn

March 15, 2010, 07:28 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Is why I have this 20 inch Norinco 97.

March 18, 2010, 03:49 AM	#15
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	I am evaluating CAS shotguns as well, but when I get mine I want it to double as a home defense gun. I have heard people mention reliability issues with the 97. Would I be better off with an SxS or if well maintained, would a 97 be fine for a home defense weapon? Last edited by Delmar; March 18, 2010 at 05:44 AM.

March 18, 2010, 09:09 AM	#16
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	I wouldn't trade my old mod 37 .12 for nothin'. __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training"

March 18, 2010, 03:26 PM	#18
tater134 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Location: NE,PA Posts: 390	I have a Norinco 97 and Ive fired hundreds of shells through it without any issues.It did need some breaking in when I first got it but thats to be expected with a brand new gun.Ive used to it to shoot clays before and it was surprisingly effective and I keep it loaded with 00 Buck for home defense.

March 18, 2010, 05:13 PM	#19
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	Why not?? Respectfully Hawg Haggen, why would my Winchester mod.37 single bbl. not be legal for CAS? You've got me a little curious __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training"

March 18, 2010, 07:40 PM	#20
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=161405096 Is this gun an 1897 clone? Seems really inexpensive.

March 19, 2010, 03:08 PM	#23
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	IAC is supposed to be a good brand, and is says NIB which I think means new in box. Is there reason to believe that this would be an inferior version of that brand? That auction ended without a bid, by the way, but they relisted it. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=161529110 Last edited by Delmar; March 19, 2010 at 03:23 PM.

March 19, 2010, 04:22 PM	#24
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Norinco is a very good brand. The earlier versions had some kind of light weight mystery wood but the later ones have walnut stocks. Wood for real 97's fits tho.

March 19, 2010, 04:35 PM	#25
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	In that case, I wish this was a good time for me to spend $300.