Would you choose a different shotgun... - Page 2

warwagon · July 22, 2006, 10:14 PM

There is a reason that thousands, upon thousands of LEOs carry the pump, and that is the reliabilaty factor.

It is not that it is easier to train with,or anything else.

If you feel more comfortable with an auto, then by all means use it.

I just would not advocate changing platforms from what you are familiar with for the sake of having a faster action, a few more shots, looking cool, or any other reason.

Social work is a very serious matter,and in a bad situation, you want what works for you.

UniversalFrost · July 22, 2006, 11:50 PM

why not a SXS or O/U or for that fact a bolt action shotgun.

I have and old stevens 20 gauge bolt action shot gun (clip fed) and many bad guys would just be intimidated as hell to see what 9/10 times they would think is a huge bore rifle pointed right at them.

Also a double barrel is really easy to reload with one hand if it has ejectors. Just pop open hold some way (between legs, etc..) and put in new shells from pocket. unloading both barells is usually a good deterent. plus if you have a backup like a snub nose 38 you can ditch the shotgun after the 2 shots and unload a few into anyone else that rushes you.

If just pump vs. auto I would go with pump for pure preference.

IronBalls · July 23, 2006, 12:26 AM

I have never short-stroked,... and have a few semis and pumps of various types/manufactures...

870 is my first choice for any 'need' situation... it is 100% my 'goto' weapon

tanksoldier · July 23, 2006, 12:57 AM

My truck gun, as mentioned elsewhere, is a Winchester Ranger 120 cut down to an 18.25" barrel. Right now it has a 5+1 cap, soon will purchase a mag extender to give it 7+1. Here in Colorado we can carry in a vehicle with rounds in the tube, but chamber empty. Right now I keep 4 rounds of OO buck, leaving one space for a slug if I need it. I figure close range is more likely.

I also keep a cartridge belt next to the gun with 8x1oz slugs and 17xOO buck in the loops. My emergency ammo bag has another cartridge belt loaded the same and 2x15 9mm spare mags for my Sig 226 daily carry, for which I already have 2 spare mags in my carry rig.

If all of this can't get me out of trouble it's time to call for close air support.

I realize I can't effectively reply to long range sniper fire, but if the other guy knows what he's doing I won't even know he's there until it's too late. In any case I'm not sticking around to play counter-sniper games when I'm trying to bug out... and any REALLY effective long range sniper rifle doesn't multitask well. Long range stationary shooting is about it.

BobGnKY · July 23, 2006, 03:27 PM

My go-to shotgun is an 870. I keep the magazine loaded, but the chamber empty. I WANT the BG to hear that he just done screwed up by picking my home.

Backup is a Winchester 1897 riot gun. backup to it is the 1100.

... then there's the .45's ...

Slideman · January 8, 2007, 11:05 PM

I prefer my Mossberg 590 pump 12 gauge, but would be just as happy with my Remington Wimgmaster if only its barrel was shorter and magazine longer.

Obviously, the one you shoot quite a bit is the best choice. If you don't shoot quite a bit, a pump is easier to understand and therefore much safer and more reliable.

Get whichever one tickles your fancy, add in a case of LOW RECOIL ammo, turn that ammo into empty hulls and now you have a defensive system that is ready to go... as soon as you replenish the case of ammo.

akr · January 9, 2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

I'm old and set in my ways. The 870 platform has worked for me for over 40 years and will continue to do so.

Short stroking? The cure for that is elbow grease and BA/UU/R.....
__________________
Molon Labe....

Dave, you're still young at 59 or 60. I'm 67 and that's getting old.

mathman · January 9, 2007, 02:01 AM

Quote:

There is a reason that thousands, upon thousands of LEOs carry the pump, and that is the reliabilaty factor.

Actually, I think it is more of a cost factor.

Jeff Mulliken · January 9, 2007, 08:00 AM

"One thing about the "one arm is disabled" thing. I have seen gas guns that are not reliable when not properly mounted."

That's crap, gas operated guns are not affected by mount. Recoil operated guns may be affected by mount.

Use the gun that you are most familiar with, that you shoot the most often. Use the gun you take the safety off without even knowing it, the gun you can use without having to think. Because if you really need a gun you won't have time to think.

There is nothing about the type of gun, choke, barrel length, load or an extra shell in the pipe that makes as much difference as the operator error under stress. Use whatever gun your most likely to use correctly when your scared half to death and operating on instinct.

The gun can't save your a$$, unless you can.

Jeff

Dave McC · January 9, 2007, 08:53 AM

Thanks, akr. I'm 60. I did a flurry with a teen a month or so ago. He had a 391. I was able to beat him handily with an 870 and good technique.

As for one arm disabled...

I was instructing for the state of MD when the Miami Shootout got everyone's attention. We instructors worked out one armed 870 methods that worked. I believe some of the fancy gun skuls teach them now.

However, best to neutralize the threat before these need to be used. A good shotgunner can do that amazingly fast.

kozak6 · January 9, 2007, 04:47 PM

I'd rather have a pump.

If I had some low recoil loads for my father to use, I need to know that they will work every single time.

A pump action is plenty fast enough for anything you need to do if you get some practice in.

And, if flood water, mud, muck, and grime is involved, the pump definitely wins.

One Inch Group · January 13, 2007, 01:34 AM

Mossberg 590-A1

It's served me well.

Redneck88 · January 13, 2007, 01:49 AM

Im a big Double Barrel fan, although its only 2 shots I dont plan on missing. if it were four or five guys Id use my Remington Model 10 with Slugs and 00 Buckshot.

M1911 · January 13, 2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

if it were four or five guys Id use my Remington Model 10 with Slugs and 00 Buckshot.

So if it was four or five guys, you'd ask them to wait while you got your other shotgun and loaded it?

Blue Duck · January 13, 2007, 10:44 PM

I have owned some pumps, but to be honest, I have seem people have more problems with pumps then autos. My choice is an A5 Browning, I have 4 of them and as long as the friction rings are installed right, They have been absolutly reliable for me, and since I am most familiar with them, that would be my choice. If I can trust a 1911 45ACP for my defense hand gun, I can also trust a good proven A5

rantingredneck · January 13, 2007, 11:15 PM

Count me as another vote for the Rem 870. I keep mine with 20 in bl and 8 shot extension loaded with managed recoil 00 buckshot so that my wife can comfortably handle it too. I also keep my Mossberg 835 24 in bl loaded with 5 3" 00 loads as backup to the 870 or in case the SRHTF and we both need to start slinging pellets. Also keep the P89 loaded and accessible and if all that fails I'll start cranking .30-30 rounds out of my Win 94 ala Chuck Connors.

I also keep the chambers empty on the shotguns so that (as someone else has already said) the BG knows he done gone and effed up bigtime.

Nemsis · January 14, 2007, 11:41 PM

since I'm not allowed to have a handgun my only choice is a shotgun, but I love my 870 and all you need is practice practice practice.

P.S. am I the only one that practices getting my gun and loading it in the dark

rantingredneck · January 15, 2007, 12:06 AM

No, you're not.

I practice with snap caps though so that it's a bit safer.

dfaugh · January 19, 2007, 10:36 AM

See my response hers:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=233809&page=2

July 22, 2006, 11:50 PM	#27
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	why not a SXS or O/U or for that fact a bolt action shotgun. I have and old stevens 20 gauge bolt action shot gun (clip fed) and many bad guys would just be intimidated as hell to see what 9/10 times they would think is a huge bore rifle pointed right at them. Also a double barrel is really easy to reload with one hand if it has ejectors. Just pop open hold some way (between legs, etc..) and put in new shells from pocket. unloading both barells is usually a good deterent. plus if you have a backup like a snub nose 38 you can ditch the shotgun after the 2 shots and unload a few into anyone else that rushes you. If just pump vs. auto I would go with pump for pure preference. __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

July 23, 2006, 12:26 AM	#28
IronBalls Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: Henderson NV Posts: 312	I have never short-stroked,... and have a few semis and pumps of various types/manufactures... 870 is my first choice for any 'need' situation... it is 100% my 'goto' weapon __________________ J-frame cross draw IWB, Glock leg drop down, 870P over the shoulder, AR in the arms, empty wallet front left pocket, expired buss pass. Bliss.

July 23, 2006, 12:57 AM	#29
tanksoldier Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 219	My truck gun, as mentioned elsewhere, is a Winchester Ranger 120 cut down to an 18.25" barrel. Right now it has a 5+1 cap, soon will purchase a mag extender to give it 7+1. Here in Colorado we can carry in a vehicle with rounds in the tube, but chamber empty. Right now I keep 4 rounds of OO buck, leaving one space for a slug if I need it. I figure close range is more likely. I also keep a cartridge belt next to the gun with 8x1oz slugs and 17xOO buck in the loops. My emergency ammo bag has another cartridge belt loaded the same and 2x15 9mm spare mags for my Sig 226 daily carry, for which I already have 2 spare mags in my carry rig. If all of this can't get me out of trouble it's time to call for close air support. I realize I can't effectively reply to long range sniper fire, but if the other guy knows what he's doing I won't even know he's there until it's too late. In any case I'm not sticking around to play counter-sniper games when I'm trying to bug out... and any REALLY effective long range sniper rifle doesn't multitask well. Long range stationary shooting is about it. __________________ I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

January 14, 2007, 11:41 PM	#42
Nemsis Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Chicago Posts: 408	since I'm not allowed to have a handgun my only choice is a shotgun, but I love my 870 and all you need is practice practice practice. P.S. am I the only one that practices getting my gun and loading it in the dark __________________ "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas

January 19, 2007, 10:36 AM	#44
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	See my response hers: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=233809&page=2 __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

July 22, 2006, 10:14 PM	#26
warwagon Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Location: Dayton Oh Posts: 341	There is a reason that thousands, upon thousands of LEOs carry the pump, and that is the reliabilaty factor. It is not that it is easier to train with,or anything else. If you feel more comfortable with an auto, then by all means use it. I just would not advocate changing platforms from what you are familiar with for the sake of having a faster action, a few more shots, looking cool, or any other reason. Social work is a very serious matter,and in a bad situation, you want what works for you.

July 23, 2006, 03:27 PM	#30
BobGnKY Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2006 Location: Mayberry (Shelbyville) KY Posts: 137	My go-to shotgun is an 870. I keep the magazine loaded, but the chamber empty. I WANT the BG to hear that he just done screwed up by picking my home. Backup is a Winchester 1897 riot gun. backup to it is the 1100. ... then there's the .45's ...

January 8, 2007, 11:05 PM	#31
Slideman Member Join Date: December 20, 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 78	I prefer my Mossberg 590 pump 12 gauge, but would be just as happy with my Remington Wimgmaster if only its barrel was shorter and magazine longer. Obviously, the one you shoot quite a bit is the best choice. If you don't shoot quite a bit, a pump is easier to understand and therefore much safer and more reliable. Get whichever one tickles your fancy, add in a case of LOW RECOIL ammo, turn that ammo into empty hulls and now you have a defensive system that is ready to go... as soon as you replenish the case of ammo.

January 9, 2007, 08:00 AM	#34
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	*"One thing about the "one arm is disabled" thing. I have seen gas guns that are not reliable when not properly mounted."* That's crap, gas operated guns are not affected by mount. Recoil operated guns may be affected by mount. Use the gun that you are most familiar with, that you shoot the most often. Use the gun you take the safety off without even knowing it, the gun you can use without having to think. Because if you really need a gun you won't have time to think. There is nothing about the type of gun, choke, barrel length, load or an extra shell in the pipe that makes as much difference as the operator error under stress. Use whatever gun your most likely to use correctly when your scared half to death and operating on instinct. The gun can't save your a$$, unless you can. Jeff

January 9, 2007, 08:53 AM	#35
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, akr. I'm 60. I did a flurry with a teen a month or so ago. He had a 391. I was able to beat him handily with an 870 and good technique. As for one arm disabled... I was instructing for the state of MD when the Miami Shootout got everyone's attention. We instructors worked out one armed 870 methods that worked. I believe some of the fancy gun skuls teach them now. However, best to neutralize the threat before these need to be used. A good shotgunner can do that amazingly fast.

January 9, 2007, 04:47 PM	#36
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I'd rather have a pump. If I had some low recoil loads for my father to use, I need to know that they will work every single time. A pump action is plenty fast enough for anything you need to do if you get some practice in. And, if flood water, mud, muck, and grime is involved, the pump definitely wins.

January 13, 2007, 01:34 AM	#37
One Inch Group Junior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Posts: 6	Mossberg 590-A1 It's served me well.

January 13, 2007, 01:49 AM	#38
Redneck88 Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: Bartlesville Oklahoma Posts: 17	Im a big Double Barrel fan, although its only 2 shots I dont plan on missing. if it were four or five guys Id use my Remington Model 10 with Slugs and 00 Buckshot.

January 13, 2007, 10:44 PM	#40
Blue Duck Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2006 Posts: 402	I have owned some pumps, but to be honest, I have seem people have more problems with pumps then autos. My choice is an A5 Browning, I have 4 of them and as long as the friction rings are installed right, They have been absolutly reliable for me, and since I am most familiar with them, that would be my choice. If I can trust a 1911 45ACP for my defense hand gun, I can also trust a good proven A5

January 13, 2007, 11:15 PM	#41
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	Count me as another vote for the Rem 870. I keep mine with 20 in bl and 8 shot extension loaded with managed recoil 00 buckshot so that my wife can comfortably handle it too. I also keep my Mossberg 835 24 in bl loaded with 5 3" 00 loads as backup to the 870 or in case the SRHTF and we both need to start slinging pellets. Also keep the P89 loaded and accessible and if all that fails I'll start cranking .30-30 rounds out of my Win 94 ala Chuck Connors. I also keep the chambers empty on the shotguns so that (as someone else has already said) the BG knows he done gone and effed up bigtime.

January 15, 2007, 12:06 AM	#43
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	No, you're not. I practice with snap caps though so that it's a bit safer.