The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 7, 2004, 05:19 PM   #126
XavierBreath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2002
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 2,800
Suicide and justifiable homocide, among other things usually are exclusions.
__________________
Xavier's Blog

Last edited by XavierBreath; December 7, 2004 at 05:22 PM. Reason: to add usually..... gotta qualify that one, I'm no insurance man!
XavierBreath is offline  
Old December 7, 2004, 05:27 PM   #127
XavierBreath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2002
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 2,800
I agree we need to cool it, I think Regular Daddy (original poster) is totally freaked out... Thanks for the good conversation DarkKnight. I've gained from it, I hope you have as well.
Best regards,
XB
__________________
Xavier's Blog
XavierBreath is offline  
Old December 7, 2004, 06:27 PM   #128
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Hooksett, NH
Posts: 1,847
My life insurance policy only excludes suicide in the first two years.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old December 7, 2004, 06:37 PM   #129
Danindetroit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 757
I have one like that, and one that covers suicide from day 1. Only death in commission of a felony, or a declared war is not covered. My friend sells insurance, and say the insurance company if you die within 2 years will dig up a fight with a girlfriend our spouse, and if you die in a car accident, etc. try to make it look like you offed yourself, something to think about.
Danindetroit is offline  
Old December 7, 2004, 11:01 PM   #130
DarkKnight01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2004
Posts: 173
i indeed learned alot from this thread XB, many of the questions answered here by mvpel and the other posters and such are things ive wondered for a good while, debating is always fun some may not think so, but i do
DarkKnight01 is offline  
Old December 8, 2004, 12:27 PM   #131
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Hooksett, NH
Posts: 1,847
DK - I would definitely recommend, if you're interested in digging into this subject even deeper and more formally, to take "Judicious Use of Deadly Force" from the Lethal Force Institute if possible. The tuition is only $350. The 2005 schedule is not up yet, so keep an eye on the link.

I took it a couple of years ago in Phoenix, and it was well worth it.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old December 8, 2004, 02:24 PM   #132
DarkKnight01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2004
Posts: 173
mvpel:

thx for the info, ill look into it, how long is the coarse? not sure if i can find the time.
DarkKnight01 is offline  
Old December 8, 2004, 08:02 PM   #133
nbk2000
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2000
Posts: 216
If some young buck full of testosterone gets it in his head that he needs to beat on some old man, or anyone else for that matter, simply to "prove his point" (however stupid it is), than he's more of a danger to society than a help.

And dangers to society need to be removed, otherwise the society collapses.

It used to be that young men had wars to fight, indians to kill, frontiers to tame, and all that good stuff to expend all their youthful energies on...external enemies...rather than turning it on their neighbors!

Not any more. All the wars are fought by remote control (as much as possible), the indians own casinos, there are no frontiers that you can explore now that don't require a shuttle, a sub, and $10M dollars, so there's no one left to fight by each other.

Perhaps what's needed is a national sport where the violent youth can have its 'fun' without endangering anyone else. Remember Rollerball (NOT the lame remake either)?

Socially sanction violence inside of a controlled enviroment, and very harshly punish it outside. Make it dangerous...lethally so. It's not like there's such a shortage of humans on the planet that we can't afford to lose a few thousand or so every year to a violent sport.

Those who take the option available to them for release of their energies, get peer recognition and compensation (financial or otherwise) as rewards for 'keeping it in their pants' when amoungst polite and civil society.

The ones who are so violent that they can't 'keep it in their pants' by participating in the game, are the ones who are too violent to let live amoungst the rest of the humans, thus earning permanent removal.

'Course, this isn't going to happen here anytime soon, as we've "for the childrens sake"ed ourselves into a nation of pansy-a**ed wimps.

So punk kids get coddled till they're no longer really children, but the sense of entitlement that they've come to expect lingers long after society says that they're no longer children.

Kids used to mine coal in the US as late as the '20's for Gods sake! Tell a kid nowadays that s/he is going to work in a mine for the next hour, let alone 12 hours of everyday for the next 10 years, and they'd be screaming about their 'rights'.

As for someone like me coming to anybodies rescue, don't count on it. Most times, people get themselves into problems all of their own making, and it's not my job (nor anyone elses except the cops) to play Captain save-a-ho.

The 200 pound 'kid' beating the old man? Maybe the 'kid' is getting payback for having been molested by the old man years ago, or the old man is an addict and is getting robbed by the dealer. Either way, the old man deserves what he's getting, and I'm not risking my neck to save his skinny a**.

The woman on the bus,however, did not deserve the treatment she was getting, the punk just wanting to be randomly rude to the first person it felt safe to do so to.
__________________
(\ /)Those who seek power are not to be trusted with it.
(< >) Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America
(")V(")The Bunny has been Terminated!
nbk2000 is offline  
Old December 9, 2004, 12:16 AM   #134
John Ringo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2004
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 379
The answer is mandatory military service !!!!

Ha ha ha.
__________________
Regards,
John Ringo


"I like these calm little moments before the storm (Stansfield, The Professional)."
John Ringo is offline  
Old December 9, 2004, 08:08 AM   #135
XavierBreath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2002
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 2,800
I was thinking the same thing!
At the risk of diverting the topic westward again....Why hasn't the draft cranked up yet?
__________________
Xavier's Blog
XavierBreath is offline  
Old December 9, 2004, 09:32 AM   #136
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Hooksett, NH
Posts: 1,847
Because... get this... the Democrats were lying.

I know it's hard to believe, but it's true.

And it was the Dems who sponsored the draft bill in Congress, and they were the only ones to vote for it.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old December 9, 2004, 12:22 PM   #137
guntotin_fool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2004
Posts: 1,446
Responding to the original post.

I have had some experience with loud parties, etc. I used to bounce at a bar and came up with these observations.

1. most dangerous, alcohol fueled young man (AFYM) with his girl friend and with other AFYM, this situation is scary because he can not backdown with out major loss of face.
2. AFYM with buddies or AFYM with a girl, both of these can back down if properly defused, never question his manhood, just tell him him to be a man and not eff up in fromt of his buddies. Acting like a man is what they are trying to do.
3. AFYM's acting as idiots. Usually this can be defused by diversion...


As far as getting people to stay off your yard, water is good, landscaping can be good too, a few wild rosebushes planted where the people want to walk can help. My first house was a couple of blocks away from a major university, every friday night we had drunken frat boys around pissing in the bushes etc I put up signs that said "invisible fence" but instead went to the fleet and farm store and bought an electric fence charger and a small length of fence wire and ran it thru the bushes where all the drunks pissed.

The screams of pain were like music to my ears as several drunks found out you should never piss on an electric fence. For some reason, the seemed to stay out of our yard from then on.
guntotin_fool is offline  
Old December 11, 2004, 05:31 PM   #138
Roadkill Coyote
Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 68
Regular Daddy,

Social fighting should probably be more properly termed subcultural fighting. When you made the decision to take responsibility for the safety of you and yours, and to research and prepare for that responsibility, you left that subculture and joined this one. Of course the rules are different here, that's why you came, no?

Welcome.
Roadkill Coyote is offline  
Old December 12, 2004, 04:31 PM   #139
vitesse9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2004
Posts: 340
Just last night. Driving home from the store. Narrow street. Van coming the other way "swerves" at me slightly. Probably to "send me a message" that I was being rude not letting him go first through a part of the street where parked cars on each side made it impossible for two cars to pass. Anyway I was just driving and not pay attention to being rude. Just listening to the radio and trying to get home.

When the dude swerved at me, he was clearly being agressive ON PURPOSE. I consider this aggravated assault because a car is certainly a deadly weapon. Scared me and certainly woke me up a bit. My natural response was to honk at him. When I honked, the van stopped. I stopped to see what he wanted Looking in rearview mirror because we'd already passed each other). The van's got two "tough" kids in their eary 20s and they're sticking their hands out the window as to say "what, you want some"?

Now, I was already burning mad about them swerving at me. Their taunting just about sent me through the roof. I was certainly mad enough to get out of the car and take them up on their offer. I'm usually a peaceful guy, but something about first being assaulted with a van, then taunted when I protested had me seeing red.

Anyway, at that point I realized I had my Taurus 85 on my hip, took a deep breath, and drove on (cussing to myself). Even if I didn't have a gun, I doubt I would have endulged my rage and gotten out of the car. Too much to loose (job, professional license etc.). BUT, HAVING THE GUN MEANT I DID NOT HAVE THE OPTION TO GET OUT OF THE CAR. It's that simple. If you carry a gun, you don't get to act on your temper!
vitesse9 is offline  
Old December 13, 2004, 06:30 PM   #140
mvpel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2000
Location: Hooksett, NH
Posts: 1,847
Here's a pretty good essay by Eric S. Raymond that's germane to this subject:

Ethics from the Barrel of a Gun: What Bearing Weapons Teaches About the Good Life

Quote:
Nothing most of us will ever do combines the moral weight of life-or-death choice with the concrete immediacy of the moment as thoroughly as the conscious handling of instruments deliberately designed to kill. As such, there are lessons both merciless and priceless to be learned from bearing arms — lessons which are not merely instructive to the intellect but transformative of one's whole emotional, reflexive, and moral character.
__________________
Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!"
1 Samuel 13:19
mvpel is offline  
Old December 18, 2004, 01:06 PM   #141
matthew temkin
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 7, 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 363
The older I get ( 52 now) the easier it is to ignore insults and the petty people who throw them.
And that is true wheither I am armed or unarmed.
Carrying a weapon means that he childish days of flashing the finger to a rude driver, making wisecracks to strangers, etc, are over.
If you use DPF to end a situation that you helped fuel then your rights to a claim of self defense may be null and void in court.
In other words, carrying a weapon is a wonderful excuse to
finally grow up.
matthew temkin is offline  
Old December 30, 2004, 05:14 PM   #142
Conservadude
Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2004
Location: Knik, Alaska
Posts: 65
Another couple of things to keep in mind is that you don't want to establish a record of having any kind of confrontations either. If you get into verbal contests and it comes to push and shove or worse, then you can be made to look like a hot head when the other guy's (or his family's) attorney has his say-so in court. Think ahead and keep a cool one.

A friend, who I don't always agree with, pointed out the usual rules for when to draw and when to fire. If the perp has the ability and intends to cause you grave physical harm or death, then that means you draw your weapon but do not fire. Add opportunity and then you fire to protect yourself because now, your life is in jeopardy. AOI ..ability, opportunity, intent. I already knew these rules, but my friend added an interesting twist ...whenever he said "intent", he winked and mumbled something about dead men telling no tales and that only 2 of the 3 above could be proven in court if a guy was dead (unless there were very close-by witnesses). Fortunately he doesn't carry, 'cuz that attitude worries me. I figure that if AOI is true and present, then shooting will be a 'need' more than a 'choice', and training is very important to for determining all three automatically ...it's got to be automatic too, since you don't have time to sit there and evaluate it like you're sitting in a class somewhere. "Automatic" only comes from lots of training. Correct decisions come from both training and a high commitment to solid ethics. Let the law deal with someone unless your life really is threatened (or someone else's is). Learn to tell the difference.

Brian
Conservadude is offline  
Old December 31, 2004, 12:28 AM   #143
Derius_T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: South West OHIO (boondocks)
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Socially sanction violence inside of a controlled enviroment, and very harshly punish it outside. Make it dangerous...lethally so. It's not like there's such a shortage of humans on the planet that we can't afford to lose a few thousand or so every year to a violent sport.

Those who take the option available to them for release of their energies, get peer recognition and compensation (financial or otherwise) as rewards for 'keeping it in their pants' when amoungst polite and civil society.
Hey, it worked for the Romans.

Bring back the ARENA!
Derius_T is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09960 seconds with 10 queries