Hand loads at the range?

Reloader2 · January 5, 2014, 02:34 AM

I've been lucky to have a shooting range in my back yard so I've only had one occasion to shoot at a public range. What would be the purpose to not allow hand loaded ammo at the range?

Nathan · January 5, 2014, 02:42 AM

To get you to buy their ammo.

TheDoubleDeuce · January 5, 2014, 03:51 AM

Above, probably with added safety concerns of people firing unsafe loads. Also they're probably hoping you won't take your brass, and they can resell it. So basically Money and Safety: order them according to how cynical you are.

Mr.RevolverGuy · January 5, 2014, 06:53 AM

Did this thread strike a cord with me

I have a range close buy with these rules

>No reloads ---- But they sell reloads
>Can't keep your brass once it hits the floor it's theirs ---- they take it and send it off to their reloader to be reused, yes they told me this.

Unfortunately for me I went in there shooting factory in my revolver and was putting the brass on the table thinking the rules said once the brass hits the floor. As I turned my back the range officer walked over to my table and knocked my brass on the floor. I politely asked what was going on and spoke to the owner. As I understand it now the signs have changed since that day to read no brass leaves the range. Needless to say that conversation all proved worthless and I got this sob story about his insurance prevents him from allowing reloads, and he was doing the shooting community a favor not allowing reloads. When I asked about him selling re-manufactured he said there was a big difference. Needless to say I walked out without my brass and haven't been back since not even to cruise his shop. I figured if they were that desperate for 18 empty cases of 38 special brass, they could keep it as it wasn't worth it to me.

So most will tell you their insurance won't allow reloads.

rebs · January 5, 2014, 07:22 AM

I was at a range one time that only allowed ammo bought from them and you could not keep the fired brass. I walked right out and never went back, I didn't pay their range fee and did not shoot there that day. I just walked out.

4runnerman · January 5, 2014, 08:57 AM

tough rules there. The range ( indoor) I shoot at any brass on floor as long as it is behind the bench is fair game. They also sell brass,but I guess are not so desperate for it. I could not nor would I ever shoot at a range that ( sorry to say ) Steals your brass. I know some people have no choice and for them I feel sorry

Mr.RevolverGuy · January 5, 2014, 09:18 AM

Yeah I hear ya 4runnerman, I am lucky enough to have a few other ranges around that is more along the same lines of your range. If the brass is behind the firing-line and the owner doesn't want it pick it up. I found though it is still best to ask politely and by doing so it has been good for me. A couple of fellas I see on the range frequently know I reload and as I was packing up one day they were walking in. They spoke and said hey do you want our brass we are going to shoot 223 and 10MM today. Had they not mentioned 10MM I probably wouldn't have stuck around. These guys came in with 400 rounds of Remington UMC 223 and 200 rounds of American Eagle 10MM. It didn't take them to long to pop off their rounds, they pushed it all together in a nice little pile after the end and then joked buddy we aren't going to pick it up for you. I was like a kid in a candy store that day.

Mavrick79 · January 5, 2014, 10:11 AM

So far I haven't ran into a range that won't let you pick up your brass, if I did I would do the same and leave and never come back. I wouldn't even bother arguing with them, anyone so stupid to make a policy like that is not worth my time and shows what kind of people they are.

Marco Califo · January 5, 2014, 11:16 AM

I once loaded some full load 44 magnum and had fun with 6 foot fireballs, huge booms, and a gong like sound at an indoor range. Before I finished the second cylinder the clerk was behind me yelling in my ear.
They no longer allow hand loads after that.

g.willikers · January 5, 2014, 11:23 AM

None of the indoor ranges in our area allow reloads, unless it's theirs.
They justify it because their reload supplier is a professional business with liability insurance.
They vary on who gets the brass.
Some keep it all to send back to the reloader company.
Others allow anything behind the bench to be fair game.
It is kind of hard on those of us who mostly reload, to have to pay for ammo.
Being able to keep the brass does help, though.
But I still go there, especially in bad weather.

buck460XVR · January 5, 2014, 11:34 AM

Their range...their rules. Sellin' reloads and not allowing handloads probably makes them as much if not more monies than range fees. At the local Sporting Clays range I shoot at, the owner claims to make more money off shells and beer/pizza on league night than he does off the fees for shooting on the range. While the "no-lead" rules are for health reasons, the "no-reloads" is completely about makin' money.

mikld · January 5, 2014, 11:41 AM

Indoor ranges are few and far between around Los Angeles, so I was delighted when I found one downtown, just 1/2 mile from where I worked. I walked in one day after work read all the "laws", turned around and left. Never fired a shot. Same BS as noted above; no reloads, all ammo must be purchased at the range, brass belongs to range before, during, and after firing. But a favorite range was in southern LA county where reloads were allowed, brass belongs to whoever paid for it, and a goodly lot of reloading knowledgeable staff. Needless to say this range was busy 7 days a week...

The reasons for not allowing reloads are as previously stated; a source of income in the brass and selling reloads and liability insurance (which is already a very high expense for any range, like a Dr's malpractice insurance)

**44 AMP** · January 5, 2014, 12:11 PM

I wouldn't voluntarily patronize a range with a "no-reloads" policy, and one who claims all brass as theirs is actually stealing from me.

They can claim that its because of their insurance all they want, but its an obvious lie. Even if it is true that their particular insurance "requires" it, clearly there are other insurance options, as there are other ranges that do not claim their insurance forces them to take your brass. So it is a choice, by the range owners, NOT something they are forced to do.

Now, this might sound like a small thing, after all, brass isn't all that much, right? That's kind of true, if you shoot one of the common calibers, and if your pocketbook is big enough to absorb the loss. Not every shooter is in that position.

I shoot several uncommon calibers, including some that are wildcats. Considering the time, my time, to make cases in calibers that factories don't, its not a tiny "throw away" investment. And to add insult to injury, custom brass is of NO use to commercial reloaders. ALL the range could get from it is scrap metal value. For a range to steal my property, so they can sell it for scrap metal? How does that put them any higher on a moral plane than the junkie that steals copper tubing or wire and does the same thing (sells it for scrap).

Anything I leave, is yours for the taking. Otherwise, keep your paws off!

And should it ever happen that I was at a range where the RO actually knocked my brass to the floor, in order to steal it (under their rules), not only would I not ever come back, I'd spend a LOT of effort making sure no one I knew ever went there!

Running a range is essentially a thankless task, and I understand them collecting and selling abandoned brass. But, being such a ..jerk.. about it as to claim its theirs when it hits the floor? Bah. Not only is it rude, its just wrong.

BigJimP · January 5, 2014, 12:46 PM

Their range...their rules..../ I have no problem with that...

But in my area, all the ranges will let you run reloads thru your guns.

If you rent guns - then you have to buy ammo from them - to run thru the rental guns.

Brass behind the line, shot by me, can be picked up by me. If it goes forward of the line, then it belongs to the range - and yes, they sell to a brass recycler to make a few bucks and offset their costs.

Wreck-n-Crew · January 5, 2014, 02:54 PM

Quote:

>No reloads ---- But they sell reloads
>Can't keep your brass once it hits the floor it's theirs ---- they take it and send it off to their reloader to be reused, yes they told me this.

I have a range near me that is the same way. They just recently stopped re-loaders from bringing their own. I haven't been there in a while and go somewhere else where I can pick up my brass and buy supplies.

Mr.RevolverGuy · January 5, 2014, 03:36 PM

I have no problem following the rules you are right it is their range. I just wish the rules would have been a little clearer on my part. If I go in shooting a revolver with brand new ammo that I purchased from them I expect to leave with my brass. But hey not a big deal I just don't patronize them any more.

Ritz · January 5, 2014, 04:10 PM

I also wouldn't patronize a range that didn't allow reloads or one that tried take brass from owners who were intent on keeping their fired brass. Lots of ranges around where I live so I would imagine that any with policies like that wouldn't stay in business for very long.

Lost Sheep · January 5, 2014, 07:00 PM

MrRevolverGuy (post #4)
I believe I would go there one more time. Every cylinderful of cases that came out of my revolver would go right into my pocket. Let the range officer try to take THAT brass.

I would pay with a credit card just so I could challenge the charge if they ordered me off the range and did not give a refund.

I might bring a friend to be a witness.

Anyone who wants to harass me or steal from me is inviting countermeasures.

Lost Sheep

edit: How do they feel about muzzleloaders?

mnoirot64 · January 5, 2014, 07:01 PM

I count myself as fortunate to have a terrific outdoor range and indoor range very near my house. Both ranges allow reloads and I can retrieve my brass when I'm done. I would never patronize a range that believed they owned the brass I paid for. That reminds me of the stamp tax which stoked the fire leading to the American Revolution - confiscation for all practicable purposes.

buck460XVR · January 5, 2014, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ritz:

I also wouldn't patronize a range that didn't allow reloads or one that tried take brass from owners who were intent on keeping their fired brass.

In all honesty Ritz, not everyone is as fortunate as you and I with numerous range options or our favorite range allowing us to retain our brass. If the drive to and the cost of gas, and/or the increase in range fees of a range that lets you keep your brass is higher than a more restrictive range where you can't, what's is one going to do? Drive farther and spend more money just to keep once fired brass? I feel for folks in this situation. While one can argue that reloads are more accurate than factory or range reloads, for everyday recreational shooting for ships and giggles, money talks.

Ritz · January 5, 2014, 07:29 PM

All the more reason that the next house needs to sit on a couple of acres in a rural area so I can shoot my supressed rifles to my heart's content without worrying about it.

Jim Watson · January 5, 2014, 07:39 PM

There are two rental ranges in this area.
One is factory only but claims to be working with their insurer after complaints from handloaders.
The other says their ammo in their guns but does not seem to care what you shoot in yours as long as it is not steel jacketed.
One I shot at on vacation was factory only but they did not check close enough to keep out my loads in Speer boxes.

If I had no place else to shoot, I would get in a lot of work with revolvers and .22s.

SVTCobra306 · January 5, 2014, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Unfortunately for me I went in there shooting factory in my revolver and was putting the brass on the table thinking the rules said once the brass hits the floor. As I turned my back the range officer walked over to my table and knocked my brass on the floor. I politely asked what was going on and spoke to the owner.

If this happened to me, especially on a hot range..there would be something of an unpleasant conversation with him/her and the owner and a call to their insurance company. RO's have no business violating safety rules (approaching a shooter with their back turned or blind side for anything other than a serious safety violation) in order to make your $1.80 worth of brass into the range's brass.

Even worse.. if the RO is NRA Certified and it happened to me, God help him, he'll need it. I don't even care about the brass part.. his actions are horrifying to me.

You will do well to never set foot in that place again.

ranchito457 · January 5, 2014, 08:43 PM

Thats why I joined the ISRA range out in Illinois.I drive 10 more minutes but I leave with more brass then I go with 7 out of 10 times-maybe not by much these days but still more...

rdmallory · January 5, 2014, 09:03 PM

I would fix them good.
Order in a case or two of 9mm with berdan primers leave the brass and smile.
Sure these are factory load and you are welcome to have my brass

.

Currently I shoot at a outdoor range or in my back yard. When I shot at Buds (Lexington) they would let you shoot reloads and could pick up anything behind the line, in front of the line it stays. It is a safety issue they did not want people going in front of a hot line.

January 5, 2014, 02:34 AM	#1
Reloader2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2013 Posts: 263	Hand loads at the range? I've been lucky to have a shooting range in my back yard so I've only had one occasion to shoot at a public range. What would be the purpose to not allow hand loaded ammo at the range?

January 5, 2014, 08:57 AM	#6
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	tough rules there. The range ( indoor) I shoot at any brass on floor as long as it is behind the bench is fair game. They also sell brass,but I guess are not so desperate for it. I could not nor would I ever shoot at a range that ( sorry to say ) Steals your brass. I know some people have no choice and for them I feel sorry __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

January 5, 2014, 09:18 AM	#7
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	Yeah I hear ya 4runnerman, I am lucky enough to have a few other ranges around that is more along the same lines of your range. If the brass is behind the firing-line and the owner doesn't want it pick it up. I found though it is still best to ask politely and by doing so it has been good for me. A couple of fellas I see on the range frequently know I reload and as I was packing up one day they were walking in. They spoke and said hey do you want our brass we are going to shoot 223 and 10MM today. Had they not mentioned 10MM I probably wouldn't have stuck around. These guys came in with 400 rounds of Remington UMC 223 and 200 rounds of American Eagle 10MM. It didn't take them to long to pop off their rounds, they pushed it all together in a nice little pile after the end and then joked buddy we aren't going to pick it up for you. I was like a kid in a candy store that day. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

January 5, 2014, 11:16 AM	#9
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	I once loaded some full load 44 magnum and had fun with 6 foot fireballs, huge booms, and a gong like sound at an indoor range. Before I finished the second cylinder the clerk was behind me yelling in my ear. They no longer allow hand loads after that. __________________ ............

January 5, 2014, 11:23 AM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	None of the indoor ranges in our area allow reloads, unless it's theirs. They justify it because their reload supplier is a professional business with liability insurance. They vary on who gets the brass. Some keep it all to send back to the reloader company. Others allow anything behind the bench to be fair game. It is kind of hard on those of us who mostly reload, to have to pay for ammo. Being able to keep the brass does help, though. But I still go there, especially in bad weather. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 5, 2014, 02:42 AM	#2
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	To get you to buy their ammo.

January 5, 2014, 03:51 AM	#3
TheDoubleDeuce Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2013 Posts: 115	Above, probably with added safety concerns of people firing unsafe loads. Also they're probably hoping you won't take your brass, and they can resell it. So basically Money and Safety: order them according to how cynical you are.

January 5, 2014, 06:53 AM	#4
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	Did this thread strike a cord with me I have a range close buy with these rules >No reloads ---- But they sell reloads >Can't keep your brass once it hits the floor it's theirs ---- they take it and send it off to their reloader to be reused, yes they told me this. Unfortunately for me I went in there shooting factory in my revolver and was putting the brass on the table thinking the rules said once the brass hits the floor. As I turned my back the range officer walked over to my table and knocked my brass on the floor. I politely asked what was going on and spoke to the owner. As I understand it now the signs have changed since that day to read no brass leaves the range. Needless to say that conversation all proved worthless and I got this sob story about his insurance prevents him from allowing reloads, and he was doing the shooting community a favor not allowing reloads. When I asked about him selling re-manufactured he said there was a big difference. Needless to say I walked out without my brass and haven't been back since not even to cruise his shop. I figured if they were that desperate for 18 empty cases of 38 special brass, they could keep it as it wasn't worth it to me. So most will tell you their insurance won't allow reloads. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

January 5, 2014, 07:22 AM	#5
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I was at a range one time that only allowed ammo bought from them and you could not keep the fired brass. I walked right out and never went back, I didn't pay their range fee and did not shoot there that day. I just walked out.

January 5, 2014, 10:11 AM	#8
Mavrick79 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2013 Posts: 143	So far I haven't ran into a range that won't let you pick up your brass, if I did I would do the same and leave and never come back. I wouldn't even bother arguing with them, anyone so stupid to make a policy like that is not worth my time and shows what kind of people they are.

January 5, 2014, 11:34 AM	#11
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Their range...their rules. Sellin' reloads and not allowing handloads probably makes them as much if not more monies than range fees. At the local Sporting Clays range I shoot at, the owner claims to make more money off shells and beer/pizza on league night than he does off the fees for shooting on the range. While the "no-lead" rules are for health reasons, the "no-reloads" is completely about makin' money.

January 5, 2014, 11:41 AM	#12
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Indoor ranges are few and far between around Los Angeles, so I was delighted when I found one downtown, just 1/2 mile from where I worked. I walked in one day after work read all the "laws", turned around and left. Never fired a shot. Same BS as noted above; no reloads, all ammo must be purchased at the range, brass belongs to range before, during, and after firing. But a favorite range was in southern LA county where reloads were allowed, brass belongs to whoever paid for it, and a goodly lot of reloading knowledgeable staff. Needless to say this range was busy 7 days a week... The reasons for not allowing reloads are as previously stated; a source of income in the brass and selling reloads and liability insurance (which is already a very high expense for any range, like a Dr's malpractice insurance) __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

January 5, 2014, 12:11 PM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	I wouldn't voluntarily patronize a range with a "no-reloads" policy, and one who claims all brass as theirs is actually stealing from me. They can claim that its because of their insurance all they want, but its an obvious lie. Even if it is true that their particular insurance "requires" it, clearly there are other insurance options, as there are other ranges that do not claim their insurance forces them to take your brass. So it is a choice, by the range owners, NOT something they are forced to do. Now, this might sound like a small thing, after all, brass isn't all that much, right? That's kind of true, if you shoot one of the common calibers, and if your pocketbook is big enough to absorb the loss. Not every shooter is in that position. I shoot several uncommon calibers, including some that are wildcats. Considering the time, my time, to make cases in calibers that factories don't, its not a tiny "throw away" investment. And to add insult to injury, custom brass is of NO use to commercial reloaders. ALL the range could get from it is scrap metal value. For a range to steal my property, so they can sell it for scrap metal? How does that put them any higher on a moral plane than the junkie that steals copper tubing or wire and does the same thing (sells it for scrap). Anything I leave, is yours for the taking. Otherwise, keep your paws off! And should it ever happen that I was at a range where the RO actually knocked my brass to the floor, in order to steal it (under their rules), not only would I not ever come back, I'd spend a LOT of effort making sure no one I knew ever went there! Running a range is essentially a thankless task, and I understand them collecting and selling abandoned brass. But, being such a ..jerk.. about it as to claim its theirs when it hits the floor? Bah. Not only is it rude, its just wrong. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 5, 2014, 12:46 PM	#14
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Their range...their rules..../ I have no problem with that... But in my area, all the ranges will let you run reloads thru your guns. If you rent guns - then you have to buy ammo from them - to run thru the rental guns. Brass behind the line, shot by me, can be picked up by me. If it goes forward of the line, then it belongs to the range - and yes, they sell to a brass recycler to make a few bucks and offset their costs.

January 5, 2014, 03:36 PM	#16
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	I have no problem following the rules you are right it is their range. I just wish the rules would have been a little clearer on my part. If I go in shooting a revolver with brand new ammo that I purchased from them I expect to leave with my brass. But hey not a big deal I just don't patronize them any more. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use. Last edited by Mr.RevolverGuy; January 5, 2014 at 04:19 PM.

January 5, 2014, 04:10 PM	#17
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	I also wouldn't patronize a range that didn't allow reloads or one that tried take brass from owners who were intent on keeping their fired brass. Lots of ranges around where I live so I would imagine that any with policies like that wouldn't stay in business for very long.

January 5, 2014, 07:00 PM	#18
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	MrRevolverGuy (post #4) I believe I would go there one more time. Every cylinderful of cases that came out of my revolver would go right into my pocket. Let the range officer try to take THAT brass. I would pay with a credit card just so I could challenge the charge if they ordered me off the range and did not give a refund. I might bring a friend to be a witness. Anyone who wants to harass me or steal from me is inviting countermeasures. Lost Sheep edit: How do they feel about muzzleloaders? Last edited by Lost Sheep; January 5, 2014 at 07:14 PM.

January 5, 2014, 07:01 PM	#19
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	I count myself as fortunate to have a terrific outdoor range and indoor range very near my house. Both ranges allow reloads and I can retrieve my brass when I'm done. I would never patronize a range that believed they owned the brass I paid for. That reminds me of the stamp tax which stoked the fire leading to the American Revolution - confiscation for all practicable purposes. __________________ Michael Noirot Life Member - NRA Clarksville, Tennessee

January 5, 2014, 07:29 PM	#21
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	All the more reason that the next house needs to sit on a couple of acres in a rural area so I can shoot my supressed rifles to my heart's content without worrying about it.

January 5, 2014, 07:39 PM	#22
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	There are two rental ranges in this area. One is factory only but claims to be working with their insurer after complaints from handloaders. The other says their ammo in their guns but does not seem to care what you shoot in yours as long as it is not steel jacketed. One I shot at on vacation was factory only but they did not check close enough to keep out my loads in Speer boxes. If I had no place else to shoot, I would get in a lot of work with revolvers and .22s.

January 5, 2014, 08:43 PM	#24
ranchito457 Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Location: Manhattan,Illinois Posts: 179	Thats why I joined the ISRA range out in Illinois.I drive 10 more minutes but I leave with more brass then I go with 7 out of 10 times-maybe not by much these days but still more...

January 5, 2014, 09:03 PM	#25
rdmallory Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 953	I would fix them good. Order in a case or two of 9mm with berdan primers leave the brass and smile. Sure these are factory load and you are welcome to have my brass . Currently I shoot at a outdoor range or in my back yard. When I shot at Buds (Lexington) they would let you shoot reloads and could pick up anything behind the line, in front of the line it stays. It is a safety issue they did not want people going in front of a hot line.