HELP!! New to me Kahr p40 problem

7jinxed7 · October 14, 2011, 10:12 PM

I picked up a Kahr p40 at the pawn shop today. Everything seemed fine at first. I looked it over everything cycled fine trigger went click,everything i could check seemed to be working. I field stripped ,cleaned it and lubed. i went to re assemble it and starting to cycle the pistol when all of a sudden it starting dragging. It just got worse. I took it back apart to see what the issue was. I did notice the straight piece toward the rear of the frame toward the inside seems to be pointed inward,(#31 ejector i think)is this normal? I also assembled it without the barrel and recoil spring,it still drags. It seems to be dragging around #15 cocking cam. Did I do something wrong? I watched Karhs disassembly and reassembly video and i didn't notice anything. I got this used so i don't have a owners manual for it.
Could someone show me a pic of your frame so i can compare?

7jinxed7 · October 15, 2011, 10:27 AM

I got some photos of the frame and ejector. See how the left side looks bowed in and the ejector looks pointed inward some,is that normal?

I kept trying to reassemble and after a few times it seems to be cycling better and not dragging like it was but it's still not as smooth as my G23 and M&P 9c is. But it doesn't have the horrible scraping and dragging it was doing.

Beentown71 · October 15, 2011, 08:13 PM

I am pretty positive that it is not a "problem" with the gun. They can be kinda finicky about assembly. Extra care when when putting the slide stop back in is a must. Here are pics of mine:

Beentown71 · October 15, 2011, 08:14 PM

Oops forgot pics...

7jinxed7 · October 16, 2011, 09:11 AM

Thanks beentown. I also noticed in the KAhr lube chart i found online, the frame in the photo looks the same.

I think it's my re assembly issue. It does it with out the barrel,slide stop and recoil spring on the gun too.

I put it all completely back together a few times and It quit doing it. I need to duplicate it so know what the issue is. I haven't even shot this thing yet but i need to know it's all good first.

spodwo · October 16, 2011, 09:19 AM

The slide stop spring has to be set correctly before assembly...

Watch this video - skip ahead to about 4'27 seconds....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2cZgVg_SwA

7jinxed7 · October 16, 2011, 11:41 PM

Anybody else have a issue with the top round in mag bumping the slide catch?

Slugthrower · October 17, 2011, 12:20 PM

As you begin to examine the pistol and scrutinize it more and more little kinks will seem to arise as you dig further and further into it. These percieved problems are not as they seem. Many will say that a pistol shouldn't need to be broken in. Those same people haven't owned an old original semi-auto from several decades back, when the slides and most of the parts were forged and hand fitted on a production scale, and one that hadn't already been broken in, tweaked, or had custom work done to it.

The Kahr is very small and as compact a pistol as technology allows for today. This leads to what you are encountering and it is the age old problem of tiny pistols all the way back to the very first Baby Browning .25 ACP. This is why many old timers would forego the auto for an J frame revolver. Today people are very fortunate in that more often than not they have a tiny pocket pistol that functions very well, instead of a true "jam-o-matic" with even FMJ rounds.

This was even the case in the 80s with auto pistols and HP ammo. Hence the reason they were still issuing service revolvers and it wasn't until the 90s that the auto pistol began to even be considered for police work. The military is a whole other matter and FMJ usually feeds well no matter what in full sized pistols.

My advice to you is to not nit-pick the pistol. Take it to the range and shoot a few boxes of ammuniton through it. If it gives you problems then consider solutions, rather than expecting it to be glass smooth as the much larger service sized auto-pistols are today. It just isn't going to be the case in that pistol.

Here are a few things to test out, just to satisfy your curiosity, if you must insist on understanding the pistol and it's nuances.

Take the magazine out of the pistol. Clear and check the pistol for safety purposes.

( DO NOT USE LIVE AMMUNITON, IT CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS AND IS NOT ADVISED. )

Cycle the action slowly. Notice there is nothing hanging up. Now insert an empty magazine into the pistol. Don't haul the pistol all the way to slide lock, just to the point before it locks out. Ease the slide forward and you may feel a hitch. Do it again and look and the slide stop lever, notice that it is catching as the take down cutout begins to pass the slide stop but before the magazine follower causes the slide to lock out. This is normal and you will never encounter it unless you are cycling the action without ammunition or snap caps in the magazine.

Load one snap cap in the magazine and pull the slide back just far enough to see the very tip of the ejector and ease the slide forward, without allowing it to begin chambering the snap cap, notice it doesn't have a hitch? This is because the magazine follower isn't pushing up on the slide stop causing the shelf on the slide stop to hang up on the take down cut out itself.

Now take out the magazine retract the slide, then lock the slide back manually. Reinsert the magazine and retract the slide to allow the slide stop to fall. Hold the slide, do not let it go, you must control it. Allow the slide to move forward, watch as the snap cap is being fed under the extractor and how the tip of the snap cap is pushing against the feed ramp. Keep the slide under control, give it a little forward force but don't allow it to get away from you. You will see the snap cap begin to push under the extractor and nose up the ramp all at the same time. You may also notice that any resistance up to that point has all but disappeared once the round has gotten under the extractor. That final bit of drag, the last 1/8th inch, you are feeling is coming from the case rim and the extractor itself as the snap cap is fully seated behind the extractor claw and the slide is moving into full battery.

Add to this same operation a full magazine with the pressure of the top round pushing underneath the slide and it creates a large amount of friction. This is why they tell you to use the slide stop to release the slide on a full mag. The only way to overcome it is to snap that slide back as if you wanted to rip it off the frame and not slow it down with any hesitation. The combination of strong magazine spring, tiny low mass slide with average weight recoil spring, and tolerances that are minimal add up to a pistol that barely overcomes it's own inertia.

It is a case of cake and eating it too. You can have a very loose pistol that feeds well all the time without a little tweaking, which will be less accurate and potentially less durable or you can have a tighter pistol that needs a little TLC.

For those that must have the Instant Chocolate milk variety, more power to them. For those that demand parts fitment near perfection, then you run up against a tolerance problem till you work them out. The AR vs AK is the exact same thing on a different scale. You will hear arguments from both sides. Take it for what it is and proceed on what you consider your best course of action.

All of those things are normal to the Kahr. If your ammuntion is rubbing against the slide stop it could be from the shape of the bullet and you might consider different ammuntion or that the magazine may be damaged. The bullet itself should just barely clear the edge of the slide stop. If you have a second or third mag for comparison, look at them as well. Although it may not be a problem at all unless it locks the slide back after you discharge each round in the magazine. The Kahr is better as a 9mm and pushing the limit as a .40 S&W and in .45APC is outside it's design capabilties, IMO. I wouldn't fault you one bit if you decide to be rid of it.

If you do go to the range and you do find that the pistol is locking back on every round, then it would be a candidate for service as it may be as simple as a slide stop that is out of spec. If you find the slide not returning fully to battery, that last 1/8th inch, then it is that pesky extractor being too tight and needing to be tuned, which is fairly easy to do. The slide stop can be tweaked as well, if you are not timid. If you ruin the parts they are easily replaced and you'd still be able to resell the pistol as there would be nothing permanently altered which those replacement parts wouldn't correct and put the pistol back to factory standard.

Go shoot it and see what it does. Chances are that the previous owner had no patience and encountered one of the two problems in the above paragraph. Both are easy to correct. Both only require a single bit file, fine grade sharpening stone, and some judicial use with a little patience mixed in.

Really wish they would loosen up the pistols so this wouldn't make them seem like a POS, but then they'd cost as much as a, cough,cough... MIMber.

Go test your pistol. Come back and tell me what happened and I can talk you though correcting the problem if possible. You may even get a little bit of gun smith in your blood from a little experience and learn just a little more about firearms than just knowing how to load, aim,shoot, field strip and clean them.

7jinxed7 · October 17, 2011, 06:54 PM

Thanks slugthrower. i take it you've had a few of these Kahr's. I personally have not had any experience with them. I've had Glock's and M&P's that didn't require any tuning. They both worked flawlessly out of the box.

I bought this pistol because i really liked the feel,size, and the sights. Hopefully it will all work out. One odd thing i noticed about the P40 is it appeared to be lightly used with some powder residue on and in it,but not a single drop of oil or lube,NONE. It's a little strange. I'm wondering if the previous owwner tried shooting it dry and didn't do any research and just bailed on it when it didn't work right. ANyway i'll shoot it and let you know how it goes. I would have done it this weekend but the wife doesn't know I bought it yet.

October 15, 2011, 10:27 AM	#2
7jinxed7 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: no where Posts: 352	I got some photos of the frame and ejector. See how the left side looks bowed in and the ejector looks pointed inward some,is that normal? I kept trying to reassemble and after a few times it seems to be cycling better and not dragging like it was but it's still not as smooth as my G23 and M&P 9c is. But it doesn't have the horrible scraping and dragging it was doing. Last edited by 7jinxed7; October 15, 2011 at 04:57 PM.

October 17, 2011, 12:20 PM	#8
Slugthrower Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Posts: 823	As you begin to examine the pistol and scrutinize it more and more little kinks will seem to arise as you dig further and further into it. These percieved problems are not as they seem. Many will say that a pistol shouldn't need to be broken in. Those same people haven't owned an old original semi-auto from several decades back, when the slides and most of the parts were forged and hand fitted on a production scale, and one that hadn't already been broken in, tweaked, or had custom work done to it. The Kahr is very small and as compact a pistol as technology allows for today. This leads to what you are encountering and it is the age old problem of tiny pistols all the way back to the very first Baby Browning .25 ACP. This is why many old timers would forego the auto for an J frame revolver. Today people are very fortunate in that more often than not they have a tiny pocket pistol that functions very well, instead of a true "jam-o-matic" with even FMJ rounds. This was even the case in the 80s with auto pistols and HP ammo. Hence the reason they were still issuing service revolvers and it wasn't until the 90s that the auto pistol began to even be considered for police work. The military is a whole other matter and FMJ usually feeds well no matter what in full sized pistols. My advice to you is to not nit-pick the pistol. Take it to the range and shoot a few boxes of ammuniton through it. If it gives you problems then consider solutions, rather than expecting it to be glass smooth as the much larger service sized auto-pistols are today. It just isn't going to be the case in that pistol. Here are a few things to test out, just to satisfy your curiosity, if you must insist on understanding the pistol and it's nuances. Take the magazine out of the pistol. Clear and check the pistol for safety purposes. ( DO NOT USE LIVE AMMUNITON, IT CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS AND IS NOT ADVISED. ) Cycle the action slowly. Notice there is nothing hanging up. Now insert an empty magazine into the pistol. Don't haul the pistol all the way to slide lock, just to the point before it locks out. Ease the slide forward and you may feel a hitch. Do it again and look and the slide stop lever, notice that it is catching as the take down cutout begins to pass the slide stop but before the magazine follower causes the slide to lock out. This is normal and you will never encounter it unless you are cycling the action without ammunition or snap caps in the magazine. Load one snap cap in the magazine and pull the slide back just far enough to see the very tip of the ejector and ease the slide forward, without allowing it to begin chambering the snap cap, notice it doesn't have a hitch? This is because the magazine follower isn't pushing up on the slide stop causing the shelf on the slide stop to hang up on the take down cut out itself. Now take out the magazine retract the slide, then lock the slide back manually. Reinsert the magazine and retract the slide to allow the slide stop to fall. Hold the slide, do not let it go, you must control it. Allow the slide to move forward, watch as the snap cap is being fed under the extractor and how the tip of the snap cap is pushing against the feed ramp. Keep the slide under control, give it a little forward force but don't allow it to get away from you. You will see the snap cap begin to push under the extractor and nose up the ramp all at the same time. You may also notice that any resistance up to that point has all but disappeared once the round has gotten under the extractor. That final bit of drag, the last 1/8th inch, you are feeling is coming from the case rim and the extractor itself as the snap cap is fully seated behind the extractor claw and the slide is moving into full battery. Add to this same operation a full magazine with the pressure of the top round pushing underneath the slide and it creates a large amount of friction. This is why they tell you to use the slide stop to release the slide on a full mag. The only way to overcome it is to snap that slide back as if you wanted to rip it off the frame and not slow it down with any hesitation. The combination of strong magazine spring, tiny low mass slide with average weight recoil spring, and tolerances that are minimal add up to a pistol that barely overcomes it's own inertia. It is a case of cake and eating it too. You can have a very loose pistol that feeds well all the time without a little tweaking, which will be less accurate and potentially less durable or you can have a tighter pistol that needs a little TLC. For those that must have the Instant Chocolate milk variety, more power to them. For those that demand parts fitment near perfection, then you run up against a tolerance problem till you work them out. The AR vs AK is the exact same thing on a different scale. You will hear arguments from both sides. Take it for what it is and proceed on what you consider your best course of action. All of those things are normal to the Kahr. If your ammuntion is rubbing against the slide stop it could be from the shape of the bullet and you might consider different ammuntion or that the magazine may be damaged. The bullet itself should just barely clear the edge of the slide stop. If you have a second or third mag for comparison, look at them as well. Although it may not be a problem at all unless it locks the slide back after you discharge each round in the magazine. The Kahr is better as a 9mm and pushing the limit as a .40 S&W and in .45APC is outside it's design capabilties, IMO. I wouldn't fault you one bit if you decide to be rid of it. If you do go to the range and you do find that the pistol is locking back on every round, then it would be a candidate for service as it may be as simple as a slide stop that is out of spec. If you find the slide not returning fully to battery, that last 1/8th inch, then it is that pesky extractor being too tight and needing to be tuned, which is fairly easy to do. The slide stop can be tweaked as well, if you are not timid. If you ruin the parts they are easily replaced and you'd still be able to resell the pistol as there would be nothing permanently altered which those replacement parts wouldn't correct and put the pistol back to factory standard. Go shoot it and see what it does. Chances are that the previous owner had no patience and encountered one of the two problems in the above paragraph. Both are easy to correct. Both only require a single bit file, fine grade sharpening stone, and some judicial use with a little patience mixed in. Really wish they would loosen up the pistols so this wouldn't make them seem like a POS, but then they'd cost as much as a, cough,cough... MIMber. Go test your pistol. Come back and tell me what happened and I can talk you though correcting the problem if possible. You may even get a little bit of gun smith in your blood from a little experience and learn just a little more about firearms than just knowing how to load, aim,shoot, field strip and clean them. __________________ History is a freak show and a dark comedy. Mankind is a spectacle all to itself. Play your role, let the jesters play theirs. In the end...who has the last laugh? Last edited by Slugthrower; October 17, 2011 at 12:49 PM.

October 14, 2011, 10:12 PM	#1
7jinxed7 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: no where Posts: 352	HELP!! New to me Kahr p40 problem I picked up a Kahr p40 at the pawn shop today. Everything seemed fine at first. I looked it over everything cycled fine trigger went click,everything i could check seemed to be working. I field stripped ,cleaned it and lubed. i went to re assemble it and starting to cycle the pistol when all of a sudden it starting dragging. It just got worse. I took it back apart to see what the issue was. I did notice the straight piece toward the rear of the frame toward the inside seems to be pointed inward,(#31 ejector i think)is this normal? I also assembled it without the barrel and recoil spring,it still drags. It seems to be dragging around #15 cocking cam. Did I do something wrong? I watched Karhs disassembly and reassembly video and i didn't notice anything. I got this used so i don't have a owners manual for it. Could someone show me a pic of your frame so i can compare? Last edited by 7jinxed7; October 14, 2011 at 10:23 PM.

October 15, 2011, 08:13 PM	#3
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I am pretty positive that it is not a "problem" with the gun. They can be kinda finicky about assembly. Extra care when when putting the slide stop back in is a must. Here are pics of mine:

October 16, 2011, 09:11 AM	#5
7jinxed7 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: no where Posts: 352	Thanks beentown. I also noticed in the KAhr lube chart i found online, the frame in the photo looks the same. I think it's my re assembly issue. It does it with out the barrel,slide stop and recoil spring on the gun too. I put it all completely back together a few times and It quit doing it. I need to duplicate it so know what the issue is. I haven't even shot this thing yet but i need to know it's all good first.

October 16, 2011, 09:19 AM	#6
spodwo Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2008 Posts: 839	The slide stop spring has to be set correctly before assembly... Watch this video - skip ahead to about 4'27 seconds.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2cZgVg_SwA

October 16, 2011, 11:41 PM	#7
7jinxed7 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: no where Posts: 352	Anybody else have a issue with the top round in mag bumping the slide catch?

October 17, 2011, 06:54 PM	#9
7jinxed7 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: no where Posts: 352	Thanks slugthrower. i take it you've had a few of these Kahr's. I personally have not had any experience with them. I've had Glock's and M&P's that didn't require any tuning. They both worked flawlessly out of the box. I bought this pistol because i really liked the feel,size, and the sights. Hopefully it will all work out. One odd thing i noticed about the P40 is it appeared to be lightly used with some powder residue on and in it,but not a single drop of oil or lube,NONE. It's a little strange. I'm wondering if the previous owwner tried shooting it dry and didn't do any research and just bailed on it when it didn't work right. ANyway i'll shoot it and let you know how it goes. I would have done it this weekend but the wife doesn't know I bought it yet.