Smoke and lead bullets

[Forrest68]

Ok, my lead 147gr fn bullets showed up finally. Tested some loads settled in on 3.6 gr or HP38, loaded up a bunch hopen to use them in a steel plate shoot. Went to the range to pump a few threw to double check everything. When I tested the loads I was shooting slow and checking for accuracy, so I didnt notice a whole lotta a smoke. Today I was checking more for speed and reliable feeding, no issues there but a whole lotta smoke? Can anything be done to reduce the amount of smoke or is it just the nature of the beast? I do have my 124gr rn to fall back on if need be, but thought the 147gr would be better on steel. Thanks

[dahermit]

I get alot of dirt (carbon mixed with bullet lube), and smoke with all of the cast bullets I shoot. I have come to the conclusion that it is an effect of using cast lead bullets and NRA Formula 50/50 Alox lubricant. Because I see no reason to change bullet lubes inasmuch as I bought the hollow sticks in bulk and still have some, and it always worked well. I just say, the heck with the smoke and crud...and shoot them anyway. There is probably casters here who will offer-up the name of their bullet lube, that does not smoke. As for me, I do not view it as a problem worthy of concern.

[jag2]

Many previous posts on this. Basically two causes, some lubes are much smokier than others and most lead loads are not very strong so you get smoke from less than complete burning of your powder. That can occur even with fmj bullets, unburnt powder means smoke. You can play around with different combos but you won't get it to go away completely or be as smoke free as a good fmj load. It is fun (and maybe a little expensive) to play with, just don't be discouraged when you can't get the results you were hoping for.

[LE-28]

I started using Liquid Alox from Lee and the smoke is about 1/3 of what it was with the standard wax based bullet lube. If you are casting your own you can experiment with this. If you are buying yours, like you stated you are, then Yes, it is the nature of the beast.

Some of those lube formulas will make a smoke cloud the size of a small car.

[Forrest68]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback, kinda what I had figured. Just reassuren myself I guess, so guess for compitition its the plated 124gr, I'm hopen to better my 4th place results from last time or at least maintain that standing. Thanks again

[serf 'rett]

Can anything be done to reduce the amount of smoke ...

Shoot on windy days?

Nature of beast.

[stubbicatt]

I remember when I used to shoot BPCR, and made my own homemade grease from various fats and oils at home, and filled the lubrisizer with it. Rather than buy another lubrisizer for smokeless loads, I used my BPCR grease on standard Lyman cast 357 mag bullets. The little puff of smoke smelled like McDonalds at lunchtime.

I used to laugh out loud as people down wind from my smokepole would occasionally say, "let's pack it in and go get McDonalds..." I always believed that the smell of the smoke must have been a subliminal reminder.

The BPCR smoke just smelled like blackpowder, just got lots of hard looks from those downwind whenever I shot that, which in its own way, also used to prompt a laugh.

[jmorris]

Wax smokes, the faster you shoot follow up shots the more likely smoke will be a problem. Just can't do it once they are libed with wax.

[dahermit]

Wax smokes, the faster you shoot follow up shots the more likely smoke will be a problem. Just can't do it once they are libed with wax.

.22 Rim-fire is outside lubed with what appears to be (you can scrape it off with a finger nail),"wax", but does not seem to smoke hardly at all. Perhaps, you should define what you mean by, "Wax". Did you mean Beeswax, Spermaceti (from Sperm Whales), Lanolin, candelilla wax, ouricury wax, sugarcane wax, retamo wax, Paraffin, Carnauba , or Japan Wax, or some other type? Or do they all smoke (remember the .22 rim-fire does not), equally? Just what wax are we disscuss'en here?

[jmorris]

On center fire cast bullets have at least one lube grove that holds a lot more wax than .22 bullets or tumble lubed bullets.



.22's are quite "dirty" also, that is why almost all rimfire suppressors are made so you can take them apart to clean them.

[dahermit]

On center fire cast bullets have at least one lube grove that holds a lot more wax than .22 bullets or tumble lubed bullets.

There you go with that "wax" again. Do you mean "bullet Lube"? Or, do you actually lube your bullets with a wax? If so, which one? Just asking...you have me confused.

[Shootest]

Bullet lube is wax of one type or another. A 22LR does smoke, it just has a small amount of wax so it doesn’t smoke as much.

[noylj]

Been shooting lead for several decades, in competition and out. Even when shooting as fast as possible, indoors, long strings, smoke has never interfered with my vision of the target.
I have fired lead bullets out of machine guns and smoke has never interfered with my vision of the target.
Stop thinking smoke and start thinking target. Get in the zone and only see the front sight and target. Ignore everything else.
If smoke is such a big deal, shoot jacketed or shoot moly/poly-koted bullets (Precision bullets, Bayou bullets, BBI bullets, etc.). Don't even think about TiteGroup as a powder.
PS: it doesn't matter how much lube the bullet contains, as only a very small amount ever comes in contact with the barrel and any hot gasses. I watch videos of people showing "bad" smoke and "minimal" smoke loads and I keep wondering "that little bit of smoke actually bothers them?"

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Can anything be done to reduce the amount of smoke? or is it just the nature of the beast?

Shooting of jacketed or plated bullets would indeed eliminate some of the issue. I've always considered store bought smokey lead bullets "the nature of the beast." {as many bulk bullet brands come factory lubed with who knows what all's involved in their ingredients}
In past years I tried to resolve that very issue by changing out brands of bullet lube used in my lube/sizer press. {done after very little use of each brand.} A very time consuming job no doubt in tearing down my lubing press and cleaning out its lube chamber before dropping a whole new brand name stick lube into it.
But for Roll-your-Owns there is one store bought bullet lube that I've found creates less smoke than many others. But than again if one is satisfied with their bullet lubes performance why bother. As again "it's just the nature of the beast."

S/S

[dahermit]

Bullet lube is wax of one type or another.

Lubes like my favorite (NRA formula 50/50 Alox), is only 50% wax (Beeswax). I know of no 100% wax commercial bullet lube. They are usually a mixture of things (grease, fats, oils, lubricants-ala Alox, etc.), wax only being one of those things.

[jmorris]

Waxes are a class of chemical compounds that are plastic (malleable) near ambient temperatures. It is the substance that retains the compounds used in a lube in the grove.

[David Bachelder]

Smoke from lead bullets is the nature of the beast.

I tumble lube with LEE Alox and I see lots of smoke. I have been asked if I shoot black powder, the more roinds I send down range, the more smoke I see.

I use the Alox sparingly and allow it to dry well. The Texas sun does all of the drying, and it works well, very well.

[Forrest68]

noylj, I guess my statement of "a whole lotta smoke" you just Assumed I meant a little puff that was insignifacant. I guess a clear sigbht picture isnt important to you but it is to me, thanks

[Nick_C_S]

I like the thought of using the 147 lead bullets for steel. Good choice.

About the smoke: it's the nature of lead (as many before me have posted). Sometimes, if you up the charge a little, it lessens (only if the issue is incomplete combustion, and not lube smoke). But that is rarely a problem with HP38 (excellent powder - one of my favorites). I've seen it with HS-6 though.

Lead slides through the barrel easier than jacketed. So it has a net effect of lowering pressure a little - almost like you're using a slightly slower powder. So I have seen occasions where you can get less smoke by slightly increasing the charge, or moving to a faster powder. My gut tells me that's not your problem though. Just wanted to share the experience in case I'm wrong.

[Forrest68]

Nick_C_S, actually since someone had mentioned tome about upping the charge slightly coudl reduce soem smoke, I did and it did. There is still some smoke during rapid fire, but I'd say its managable now. so thanks for your comment. The 124gr did ok , had slight issue with one stage, but think next time I'll use the 147gr fn. Placed 10th over all which is still respectable for me, only my second time and I'm haven alot fo fun doing it which is more important. Thank again

[dahermit]

you just Assumed I meant a little puff that was insignifacant. I guess a clear sigbht picture isnt important to you but it is to me, thanks

This post was not directed to me, but I would like to clarify what I did say about NRA 50/50 Alox and cast. Although it does produce noticeable smoke, it has not been enough to obscure the target or sight picture. However, it produces a black, greasy sludge that builds up on the gun. Nevertheless, that sludge is not sever enough to interfere with, or cause any kind of malfunction or stoppage during a range session with very high round counts. Furthermore, I have used that lube since the late sixties and found it to be effective and I have no desire or reason to change...smoke, dirt, or what ever.

[Forrest68]

If it aint broke , don't fix it , right dahermit. I agree